Point Breaks come to Rapid Rewards? Was 60, now 55 points per dollar!
#1
Moderator: Southwest Airlines
Original Poster

Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
Programs: WN Companion Pass, A-list preferred, United Club ex-Lifetime Member
Posts: 19,991
Point Breaks come to Rapid Rewards? Was 60, now 55 points per dollar!
Tonight I booked some flights which were attractively priced in points, 2330 and 2379 points. Then I went to book a flight for cash. I discovered that the 2330 SFO-LAX flights priced out at $49 as normal but the 2379 OAK-LAX flights (a points price I've never encountered before) were pricing at $57. Checking the fare basis, 2379 is a 60 points per base fare dollar conversion ratio.
Folks, we have not seen 60 points per dollar since the early years of the points program. (I should check our new Wiki for the exact date, but it's been a long time!)
I surmise that flights very early and very late in the day in some markets are being offered at 60 points per dollar. I found them for LAX-OAK but not for LAX-SFO. Currently SFO has lower fares than OAK, so that makes some sense.
Please report your findings here.
This is an extremely creative tweak to Rapid Rewards. Let's hope it continues.
Folks, we have not seen 60 points per dollar since the early years of the points program. (I should check our new Wiki for the exact date, but it's been a long time!)
I surmise that flights very early and very late in the day in some markets are being offered at 60 points per dollar. I found them for LAX-OAK but not for LAX-SFO. Currently SFO has lower fares than OAK, so that makes some sense.
Please report your findings here.
This is an extremely creative tweak to Rapid Rewards. Let's hope it continues.
#3
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: home = LAX
Posts: 25,105
Tonight I booked some flights which were attractively priced in points, 2330 and 2379 points. Then I went to book a flight for cash. I discovered that the 2330 SFO-LAX flights priced out at $49 as normal but the 2379 OAK-LAX flights (a points price I've never encountered before) were pricing at $57. Checking the fare basis, 2379 is a 60 points per base fare dollar conversion ratio.
So go back and do that (flip back and forth between points and cash), and see if you can replicate this to be sure that the points/cash ratio was what you really thought. (Purchase not required!)
... And I'm not sure where you got the term Points Breaks (because I think it's used multiple places), but at IHG (the one I think of), Points Breaks are when you can book a hotel for 50% to 33% to 25% to 20% of its normal points price (ie, a flat 5000 points instead of 10000, 15000, 20000, 25000, etc). This hardly seems that big a points discount (even if it does check out).
#4
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,002
Astoundingly, it's true. See below. The same $57 non-stop WGA fare (base fare of $39.80) is available at 2,379 points (60 points/dollar) and 2,866 (72 points/dollar).
While a positive development, this is odd to me, as a customer would have no way of knowing that a particular fare is "on sale" points-wise without clicking back and forth to compare with the cash price. This seems more like a glitch than an intended promotion. Perhaps related to the implementation of the recent "Early Risers / Night Owls" sale?
While a positive development, this is odd to me, as a customer would have no way of knowing that a particular fare is "on sale" points-wise without clicking back and forth to compare with the cash price. This seems more like a glitch than an intended promotion. Perhaps related to the implementation of the recent "Early Risers / Night Owls" sale?
#5
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,406
Able to confirm that OAK-LAX does have these low ratios. For instance, on 23 October, the 5:25am nonstop is $48.98 with a base fare of $32.35. The points cost is 1934, making the ratio right about 60pts : $1 of base fare. The 12:10p nonstop is also $48.98, also with a base fare of $32.35. The points cost is (as I'm accustomed to) 2330, making the ratio right about 72pts : $1 of base fare. I hope they start doing this for more early and late flights, as we tend to take the last flight out of town some evening and the first flight back in a couple days later.
As an aside, I prefer to take the cash cost of the flight, subtract $5.60, and use that as the effective value yielded for the points - in this case, 1934pts : $43.38, or 2.24c per point. It doesn't account for the earnings, though, of 195 points - which changes the equation to 2129 points : $43.38 or just over 2c per point. Regardless of how anal you want to be in calculating it, the above discovery is definitely a change and it is definitely in our favor.
Tangentially related, does anyone remember how many points they were charging for the $29 SFO-LAS flights they were running awhile back? I'm trying to remember if that yielded a better effective points value than this. The cheapest flight I can book right now, offhand, is LAX-DEN for $38.98, base fare of $23.05. That yields a 'true' value of 1.72c per point.
As an aside, I prefer to take the cash cost of the flight, subtract $5.60, and use that as the effective value yielded for the points - in this case, 1934pts : $43.38, or 2.24c per point. It doesn't account for the earnings, though, of 195 points - which changes the equation to 2129 points : $43.38 or just over 2c per point. Regardless of how anal you want to be in calculating it, the above discovery is definitely a change and it is definitely in our favor.
Tangentially related, does anyone remember how many points they were charging for the $29 SFO-LAS flights they were running awhile back? I'm trying to remember if that yielded a better effective points value than this. The cheapest flight I can book right now, offhand, is LAX-DEN for $38.98, base fare of $23.05. That yields a 'true' value of 1.72c per point.
#6
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: SJC/BUR
Programs: Hyatt Diamond, IHG Platinum, Hilton Gold, Club Carlson Gold, Starwood Gold
Posts: 626
WN #3098 (SNA-SJC) on 11.23.17 is either 4,411 points or $56.54 of base fare. That's 78 points per dollar. In fact, all the Wanna Get Away fares that day are 78 points per dollar.
Is that normal?
Is that normal?
#8
Moderator: Southwest Airlines
Original Poster

Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
Programs: WN Companion Pass, A-list preferred, United Club ex-Lifetime Member
Posts: 19,991
I have a 1258 point reservation for that city pair booked long ago. I don't recall what the cash fare was but the base fare must have been $17.47.
Last edited by nsx; Sep 14, 17 at 9:05 pm Reason: corrected the numbers
#10
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,406
Thanks! Looks to me like the fares you found this morning are the best values - by any calculation - that we've seen from WN in a long time. I don't think I'd have even noticed it otherwise, but I'll be making a point of checking both cash and points for awhile to see if it spreads.
#12
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Southern California
Programs: AA PLT, WN A List, UA Silver, Bonvoy Titanium, Hertz 5*
Posts: 2,253
Oh, this has to be related to the before 7am and after 7pm sale mentioned earlier. I think that was the concept.
The question is did WN change the points per value on these fares or the internal price of these fares (which was usually the same as WGA).
I regularly paid extra to avoid the last flight of the day, but have often experienced the same timing due to delays.
Agreed that the free standby makes these specials very valuable.
Rasheed
The question is did WN change the points per value on these fares or the internal price of these fares (which was usually the same as WGA).
I regularly paid extra to avoid the last flight of the day, but have often experienced the same timing due to delays.
Agreed that the free standby makes these specials very valuable.
Rasheed
#13
Moderator: Southwest Airlines
Original Poster

Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
Programs: WN Companion Pass, A-list preferred, United Club ex-Lifetime Member
Posts: 19,991
I just encountered a 55 points per dollar late night fare LAX-OAK. $56.98 price, $39.70 base fare or 2187 points. Wow.
Similarly 753 points on 13.66 base fare ($29 all-in sale). Also 55 points per dollar.
Please report your findings here.
Caveat: If you buy a late night flight and standby for an earlier flight using A-list status, you can expect your ticket to be re-fared at the normal 72 points per dollar, erasing your time of day savings. That's what I recall seeing the time or two I did that last year. You have to admit this is an eminently fair policy, if it's policy and not just a software glitch.
Similarly 753 points on 13.66 base fare ($29 all-in sale). Also 55 points per dollar.
Please report your findings here.
Caveat: If you buy a late night flight and standby for an earlier flight using A-list status, you can expect your ticket to be re-fared at the normal 72 points per dollar, erasing your time of day savings. That's what I recall seeing the time or two I did that last year. You have to admit this is an eminently fair policy, if it's policy and not just a software glitch.
Last edited by nsx; Feb 6, 18 at 5:57 pm
#14
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,002
In light of the sale, I checked my bookings and found some oddities, but nothing in my favor. Points bookings I made are showing higher points fares now, despite showing the same cash price. But not enough to be a different factor (70/72/74...), just off slightly, by less than a dollar in points. An example:
LAS-OAK RT
$101 out, $56 return
Base fare = $119.40
Booked at 5806 + 2792 = 8598
Now showing 5832 + 2808 = 8640
42 point difference
Southwest's booking system remains full of mystery.
LAS-OAK RT
$101 out, $56 return
Base fare = $119.40
Booked at 5806 + 2792 = 8598
Now showing 5832 + 2808 = 8640
42 point difference
Southwest's booking system remains full of mystery.

#15
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,002
Caveat: If you buy a late night flight and standby for an earlier flight using A-list status, you can expect your ticket to be re-fared at the normal 72 points per dollar, erasing your time of day savings. That's what I recall seeing the time or two I did that last year. You have to admit this is an eminently fair policy, if it's policy and not just a software glitch.
Are A-List and A-List Preferred Members eligible for same-day standby?
Free same-day standby is not available at Southwest® kiosks. Please see a Customer Service Agent at the airport for this benefit. Free same-day standby will be provided for A-List and A-List Preferred Members traveling prior to the original scheduled departure, between the same city pairs, on the original date of travel, where a seat is available. On flights that do not meet these qualifications, A-List and A-List Preferred Members will receive priority standby and will be required to pay the difference in fare if a seat becomes available. A-List Preferred Members will be prioritized ahead of A-List Members. If an A-List or A-List Preferred Member is traveling on a multiple-Passenger reservation, free same-day standby and priority standby will not be provided for non-A-List or non-A-List Preferred Members in the same reservation. For A-List and A-List Preferred Members who have also qualified for a Companion Pass, A-List and A-List Preferred benefits are not available to the Companion unless the Companion is also an A-List and A-List Preferred Member. A-List and A-List Preferred Members can still make confirmed same-day changes for another flight to their destination, if seats are available, and will only pay the difference in fare.
Free same-day standby is not available at Southwest® kiosks. Please see a Customer Service Agent at the airport for this benefit. Free same-day standby will be provided for A-List and A-List Preferred Members traveling prior to the original scheduled departure, between the same city pairs, on the original date of travel, where a seat is available. On flights that do not meet these qualifications, A-List and A-List Preferred Members will receive priority standby and will be required to pay the difference in fare if a seat becomes available. A-List Preferred Members will be prioritized ahead of A-List Members. If an A-List or A-List Preferred Member is traveling on a multiple-Passenger reservation, free same-day standby and priority standby will not be provided for non-A-List or non-A-List Preferred Members in the same reservation. For A-List and A-List Preferred Members who have also qualified for a Companion Pass, A-List and A-List Preferred benefits are not available to the Companion unless the Companion is also an A-List and A-List Preferred Member. A-List and A-List Preferred Members can still make confirmed same-day changes for another flight to their destination, if seats are available, and will only pay the difference in fare.