Kevin AA

Route map (i.e., set of destinations) and non-stops (i.e., point-to-point rather than hub-spoke) are two different things.

In 1990, the furthest east Southwest flew was Detroit. Their route map then was much more limited than it is now. However, they had lots of nonstop flights between DAL and HOU, and I'm sure they were the only ones flying nonstop between AMA and ABQ, OKC and MCI, MSY and BHM, etc.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ju6rIUtyuN...Timetable3.jpg

elevatorgeek

Especially with these "basic economy" fares that don't allow seat selection basically guaranteeing you'll be the last to get seats and end up in a middle somewhere. Last time I flew AA we couldn't select seats without paying extra (before basic economy) as it was blacked out. I waited and looked at T-24 and there were many middles available. I still didn't select a seat figuring I may get an upgrade at the airport and I was on a three-passenger PNR. All three of us were assigned Main Cabin Extra seats on an -800 from SFO-DFW. Two of those were in exit rows. All aisle/window seats as well. We were separated but overall we got better seats by not selecting until we checked in.

kb9522

I don't understand... even with no status you can select your seats at the time of booking on AA.

kb9522

If you want Spirit-like fares, of course you're going to get Spirit-like service. Are you suggesting you should be able to pay a basic economy fare and still get complimentary MCE seats?

I think we're getting to the core of the problem here... and that is that people are inherently cheap. If people understood that they had to pay for the services they want, and that they are not just simply entitled to them, these types of discussions would go much more smoothly.

elevatorgeek

If all other seats are taken when you get to the airport, the airline will have to assign a seat they would normally charge extra for. It's either that or IDB. I knew with only middles available we couldn't be any worse off just going to the airport for our seat assignments. It's possible you could get an upgraded seat on a BE fare, but it's not something to count on. We paid regular economy fares then. We could have just as easily been all assigned middle seats if others didn't claim them at T-24 worried they'd be IDB'd otherwise.

harold

Nope. Not with basic economy fares. Seats are assigned at check-in.

kb9522

Of course not.

I'm talking about normal fares.

kb9522

So if I understand correctly, the only seats available at the time of booking (not basic economy fares) that were not preferred or MCE were middle seats? How far in advance did you book? If sitting together was very important (for some it's not), were there MCE or preferred seats located together that you could have purchased?

elevatorgeek

No non-preferred seats were available at time of booking, even middles. The middles opened around T-24. There were MCE seats that we could have purchased, but chose not to. It was quite a wise choice as it saved us close to $150. We were not together but that wasn't a problem for us.

flyer4512

I don't have any status on AA, DL or UA and pick my seats every time when I book and I use miles to pay

For my upcoming LSE/ORD/ HPN on AA I paid 20k Miles and I have seat 7B on the CRJ and seat 5C on the CR7

For my BDL/MSP flight on DL ( 12.5 K miles ) I have seat 21B on a Boeing 717

For my following BDL/ORD/MSP on UA ( 12.5k mles) I have seat 10B on a Canadair Regional Jet 700 and seat 23C on a A319

UA has a glitch where if you purchase 330 days out it says seat assigned at check in but if you check back in a wee or so you can choose seats

pinniped

Perhaps AA is better than the others.

My experience is DL. If I buy a ticket with no status, say 72 hours in advance, I see a fully blocked-out seatmap. At T-24, I *sometimes* see a seat, and can select it and check in. Other times, I do not, and I go through security without a seat assignment and get one from the GA. Sometimes I win the lottery and get a great seat...other times I don't. Twice, I've been IDB'ed. (2 IDB out of about 50 lifetime DL segments, so not a negligible rate.) As such, I generally don't book DL unless I'm perfectly fine with it becoming a (refunded) trip in vain. (e.g., a business trip...but only *certain* business trips...)

I get that if you book way in advance, they'll all let you pick seats in the back. But the seats they allow non-elites to pick often aren't any better than what a regular T-24 check-in on Southwest gets. On a 737 AA seatmap, the non-preferred seats start somewhere in the middle of the plane, about where a B15 boarding pass would leave you on WN.

flyer4512

Not the case at all, look at my seat assignments from my post above. For my Delta flight I could have picked a window seat in row 15 but opted for the aisle seat in row 21

For my UA flight row 10 is actually the 6th row on the plane, for my second leg on UA row 23 is actually the 11th row on the plane and again I passed up rows for the aisle seat.


T -24 doesn't always get you B15 as we have people who have reported ~ B15 or later using EBCI

pinniped

*shrug* Great, then I guess for you Delta works great.

Just for kicks, I looked at some sample MCI-ATL flights (since that's the only place I really ever have to fly Delta). I looked at a series of flights on Friday...the first two of the day have 1 or 2 window seats in the very back. Then a couple flights with *no* regular Y seats at all for selection by non-elites, and then the late night flight with your choice of aisle or window in the back.

I'd rather fly WN than any of these. Even if I get a crappy T-24 BP like B50, I'm going to do no worse - and probably better - than Delta.

On the plus side, I also happened to notice some reasonable F fares with choices of aisle or window there. If we want to debate the pros/cons of having an F cabin at all, that's a different story...and this is probably what I'd buy if I actually had to fly Delta without status on this particular date.

flyer4512

The difference is you are booking last minute while I book all my UA,AA and DL flights the day they go on sale. Same with WN and that's why I usually board about A-20 with EBCI

The reason I fly DL is it's nonstop MSP/BDL so a 2 hour flight vs about using WN with stops and a travel time over 5 hours . It's also 12.5 K miles each way. The UA flight is out of an airport ( LSE) that Wn doesn't service

I always use AA, DL or UA when I fly alone as I don't check bags and about a million combined miles to use.
'
We fly WN together because we check bags and have CP

xliioper

How far out? If you are looking at next few weeks, these flights are going to be fairly full with actual passengers. If you look several months out where there are very few actual sold seats, it's clear that AA has more premium/blocked out seats than DL in coach. On a 738, DL has 70 seats open for free to non-status passengers including 13 full rows with aisles and windows. While on an AA 738, 64 seats are free for non-elites with 8 full rows open.