southwest and involuntary denied boarding

Old Apr 15, 17, 8:55 am
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southwest and involuntary denied boarding

It is interesting that in the wake of the United involuntary denied boarding debacle, SW has not announced any changes to its policy of seeking volunteers for overbooked flights. SW currently has one of the highest involuntary denied boarding rates in the industry--not a good thing when the public has recently become super sensitized to this problem, and there is a growing pubiic consensus that it is an unacceptable practice.

The SW practice of seeking volunteers seems highly inflexible and archaic. The $300+ price of your ticket compensation seems to be a policy over which gate agents have no discretion. If you are going to offer $700 to a passenger who paid $400, why not offer the same amount to a passenger who paid $200? Isn't that better than an involuntary denied boarding? Also, based on what other airlines are doing, the SW limit is too low. With the SW rate of involuntary denied boarding higher than other airlines, it is clearly time to raise the bar.

Does SW risk a public relations nightmare if they don't do something about this?
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Old Apr 15, 17, 9:37 am
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WN is unique I think with its open seating policy and check in procedure...last to check in are the ones that get "see gate agent" rather than issued a boarding pass so the PAX never gets a boarding pass or assigned seat like the other carriers. Although the results are the same, the PAX is at least aware of the potential bump one step earlier than every other carrier.
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Old Apr 15, 17, 10:23 am
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Originally Posted by PAX62 View Post
WN is unique I think with its open seating policy and check in procedure...last to check in are the ones that get "see gate agent" rather than issued a boarding pass so the PAX never gets a boarding pass or assigned seat like the other carriers. Although the results are the same, the PAX is at least aware of the potential bump one step earlier than every other carrier.
It's not Last-On/First Off with involuntary DE-BOARDING.

Anyone "randomly selected" could be inclined to ignore the call button since WN has no clue where they are.
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Old Apr 15, 17, 11:05 am
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Originally Posted by oswaldjacoby View Post
With the SW rate of involuntary denied boarding higher than other airlines, it is clearly time to raise the bar.

Does SW risk a public relations nightmare if they don't do something about this?
Nope. I regularly fly 100+ flights a year on WN. I average about one VDB opportunity per year and have never seen an IDB situation. Perhaps I'm lucky, but associates and family members who regularly fly WN report similar experiences; this is one area of WN IT that excels. IMO you're seeking a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
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Old Apr 15, 17, 11:12 am
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Originally Posted by oswaldjacoby View Post
SW currently has one of the highest involuntary denied boarding rates in the industry--
Is that conjecture or do you have statistics to back it up?

edit:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/graph.../daily-chart-6

this article states that United and Delta have higher bump rates than Southwest and American only barely less.

Last edited by lougord99; Apr 15, 17 at 11:18 am
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Old Apr 15, 17, 11:41 am
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Originally Posted by lougord99 View Post
http://www.economist.com/blogs/graph.../daily-chart-6

this article states that United and Delta have higher bump rates than Southwest and American only barely less.
The bottom of the chart shows IDB's. The vertical ranking you reference is for VDB's.
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Old Apr 15, 17, 12:23 pm
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Here are DOT data for 2016. (I don't see any relevance to 2008 data, frankly.)

Yes, WN's IDB rates are multiples of mainline DL, UA or AA.



https://www.transportation.gov/airco...onsumer-report
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Old Apr 15, 17, 12:28 pm
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Originally Posted by PAX62 View Post
WN is unique I think with its open seating policy and check in procedure...last to check in are the ones that get "see gate agent" rather than issued a boarding pass so the PAX never gets a boarding pass or assigned seat like the other carriers. Although the results are the same, the PAX is at least aware of the potential bump one step earlier than every other carrier.
If I understand what happened that started this discussion, the 4 crew apparently showed up as the gate with no prior notice and the GAs had already started or perhaps completed boarding. So the people at the gate had not opportunity to prevent the ticketed passengers boarding. That in itts self seems poor operations surely someone could have called ahead.
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Old Apr 15, 17, 12:33 pm
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Originally Posted by 3Cforme View Post
Here are DOT data for 2016. (I don't see any relevance to 2008 data, frankly.)

Yes, WN's IDB rates are multiples of mainline DL, UA or AA.



https://www.transportation.gov/airco...onsumer-report
WN flies all its own planes. United/American/DL have Republic, Eagle, etc.

Are we looking at the same things in these stats?
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Old Apr 15, 17, 1:07 pm
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Originally Posted by toomanybooks View Post
WN flies all its own planes. United/American/DL have Republic, Eagle, etc.

Are we looking at the same things in these stats?
If subsidiary IDB numbers were segregated from mainline's, WN's ranking would improve?

That's a tough argument to make.

They wouldn't improve against the nation's major carriers.
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Old Apr 15, 17, 1:41 pm
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Originally Posted by LegalTender View Post
If subsidiary IDB numbers were segregated from mainline's, WN's ranking would improve?

That's a tough argument to make.

They wouldn't improve against the nation's major carriers.
No, I am asking if Republic's IDB's (like Sunday night) are included among United's in these data.
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Old Apr 15, 17, 1:47 pm
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I volunteer for denied boarding 6 to 12 times per years. I live less than 15 minutes from LUV and have never missed any important meetings. Our vacations have started less than a half day late. Wife, kids and myself volunteered for a flight last summer for a trip to a friends vacation home in Colorado.

Stop claiming about my part time job.
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Old Apr 15, 17, 2:20 pm
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Originally Posted by toomanybooks View Post
No, I am asking if Republic's IDB's (like Sunday night) are included among United's in these data.
Hard to say. Sunday night's incident wasn't an IDB in the usual context. American Eagle flights are operated by SkyWest and ExpressJet and the chart shows their (miserable) numbers separate from AA.
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Old Apr 15, 17, 5:00 pm
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Southwest Does It Right

Originally Posted by oswaldjacoby View Post
It is interesting that in the wake of the United involuntary denied boarding debacle, SW has not announced any changes to its policy of seeking volunteers for overbooked flights. SW currently has one of the highest involuntary denied boarding rates in the industry--not a good thing when the public has recently become super sensitized to this problem, and there is a growing pubiic consensus that it is an unacceptable practice.

The SW practice of seeking volunteers seems highly inflexible and archaic. The $300+ price of your ticket compensation seems to be a policy over which gate agents have no discretion. If you are going to offer $700 to a passenger who paid $400, why not offer the same amount to a passenger who paid $200? Isn't that better than an involuntary denied boarding? Also, based on what other airlines are doing, the SW limit is too low. With the SW rate of involuntary denied boarding higher than other airlines, it is clearly time to raise the bar.

Does SW risk a public relations nightmare if they don't do something about this?
The IDB works very well in the hands of a WN GA. Thank you very much. If it is not broke U do not have to fix it.
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Old Apr 15, 17, 5:02 pm
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Cool

Originally Posted by toomanybooks View Post
WN flies all its own planes. United/American/DL have Republic, Eagle, etc.

Are we looking at the same things in these stats?
Check out how many complaints WN receives.
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