WN's new reservation system aggressively cancels duplicate bookings
Feb 27, 2017, 1:55 pm
#46
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,960
Well this dispels the hope that WN's system only cancels overlapping flights. Any luck calling in and explaining your situation? Would be interesting to know if the auto cancellations can be overridden by an agent for people who need to fly same city pairs more than once per day.
Mar 4, 2017, 10:52 pm
#47
Moderator, Southwest Airlines and Choice Privileges
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 3,036
Travel dates are largely irrelevant!
Mar 9, 2017, 8:29 pm
#48
Join Date: Oct 2009
Programs: SWA Rapid Rewards
Posts: 1
OAK is not the same as SFO
I booked two round trips for Memorial Day weekend. One from OAK-DEN-OAK and one SFO-DEN-SFO. I hadn't decided which one to keep because ... so many reasons ... airport shuttle schedule (at both ends), dogsitting schedules, drive vs bus, etc.
I was stunned this morning when I received a cancellation notice for the SFO-DEN-SFO trip. I called and spent an hour on the phone sorting it out. I was told:
1. "The computer sees OAK and SFO as the same, so it identified this as a duplicate." Um, NOT. OAK and SFO are definitely not the same, any more than Burbank, Long Beach, Ontario, Orange County are the same as LAX.
2. "When the computer decides which one to cancel, it will cancel the more expensive one." Um, NOT - I ultimately canceled the OAK-DEN-OAK version and after applying the refunds to my reinstated SFO trip, ended up with $50 in travel credits because the SFO option was cheaper
I totally get that double-booking ties up inventory and it was a loophole that we've all gotten comfortable exploiting. But how about these more friendly options for your more aggressive enforcement, SWA:
1. Program your computers to keep me from making these "duplicate" arrangements in the first place.
2. Send me an email saying, "Hey, you've screwed up, fix it or we'll fix it for you."
I'd have been happy with either one of those options. But arbitrarily cancelling a round-trip, and choosing the wrong one? NOT ACCEPTABLE!!!
I was stunned this morning when I received a cancellation notice for the SFO-DEN-SFO trip. I called and spent an hour on the phone sorting it out. I was told:
1. "The computer sees OAK and SFO as the same, so it identified this as a duplicate." Um, NOT. OAK and SFO are definitely not the same, any more than Burbank, Long Beach, Ontario, Orange County are the same as LAX.
2. "When the computer decides which one to cancel, it will cancel the more expensive one." Um, NOT - I ultimately canceled the OAK-DEN-OAK version and after applying the refunds to my reinstated SFO trip, ended up with $50 in travel credits because the SFO option was cheaper
I totally get that double-booking ties up inventory and it was a loophole that we've all gotten comfortable exploiting. But how about these more friendly options for your more aggressive enforcement, SWA:
1. Program your computers to keep me from making these "duplicate" arrangements in the first place.
2. Send me an email saying, "Hey, you've screwed up, fix it or we'll fix it for you."
I'd have been happy with either one of those options. But arbitrarily cancelling a round-trip, and choosing the wrong one? NOT ACCEPTABLE!!!
Mar 9, 2017, 9:02 pm
#49
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: LAS
Posts: 1,525
I booked two round trips for Memorial Day weekend. One from OAK-DEN-OAK and one SFO-DEN-SFO. I hadn't decided which one to keep because ... so many reasons ... airport shuttle schedule (at both ends), dogsitting schedules, drive vs bus, etc.
I was stunned this morning when I received a cancellation notice for the SFO-DEN-SFO trip. I called and spent an hour on the phone sorting it out. I was told:
1. "The computer sees OAK and SFO as the same, so it identified this as a duplicate." Um, NOT. OAK and SFO are definitely not the same, any more than Burbank, Long Beach, Ontario, Orange County are the same as LAX.
2. "When the computer decides which one to cancel, it will cancel the more expensive one." Um, NOT - I ultimately canceled the OAK-DEN-OAK version and after applying the refunds to my reinstated SFO trip, ended up with $50 in travel credits because the SFO option was cheaper
I totally get that double-booking ties up inventory and it was a loophole that we've all gotten comfortable exploiting. But how about these more friendly options for your more aggressive enforcement, SWA:
1. Program your computers to keep me from making these "duplicate" arrangements in the first place.
2. Send me an email saying, "Hey, you've screwed up, fix it or we'll fix it for you."
I'd have been happy with either one of those options. But arbitrarily cancelling a round-trip, and choosing the wrong one? NOT ACCEPTABLE!!!
I was stunned this morning when I received a cancellation notice for the SFO-DEN-SFO trip. I called and spent an hour on the phone sorting it out. I was told:
1. "The computer sees OAK and SFO as the same, so it identified this as a duplicate." Um, NOT. OAK and SFO are definitely not the same, any more than Burbank, Long Beach, Ontario, Orange County are the same as LAX.
2. "When the computer decides which one to cancel, it will cancel the more expensive one." Um, NOT - I ultimately canceled the OAK-DEN-OAK version and after applying the refunds to my reinstated SFO trip, ended up with $50 in travel credits because the SFO option was cheaper
I totally get that double-booking ties up inventory and it was a loophole that we've all gotten comfortable exploiting. But how about these more friendly options for your more aggressive enforcement, SWA:
1. Program your computers to keep me from making these "duplicate" arrangements in the first place.
2. Send me an email saying, "Hey, you've screwed up, fix it or we'll fix it for you."
I'd have been happy with either one of those options. But arbitrarily cancelling a round-trip, and choosing the wrong one? NOT ACCEPTABLE!!!
Mar 9, 2017, 10:46 pm
#50
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 41
LA coterminals: SNA, LAX, LGB, LAX, BUR and ONT
Bay-Area coterminals: SJC, SFO and OAK
Last edited by ftnoob; Mar 11, 2017 at 12:00 am Reason: Fix markup
Mar 10, 2017, 9:36 am
#51
Join Date: Jul 2015
Programs: HH Diamond, HGVC, WN RR, National Exec, Avis Preferred
Posts: 1,055
I booked two round trips for Memorial Day weekend. One from OAK-DEN-OAK and one SFO-DEN-SFO. I hadn't decided which one to keep because ... so many reasons ... airport shuttle schedule (at both ends), dogsitting schedules, drive vs bus, etc.
I was stunned this morning when I received a cancellation notice for the SFO-DEN-SFO trip. I called and spent an hour on the phone sorting it out. I was told:
1. "The computer sees OAK and SFO as the same, so it identified this as a duplicate." Um, NOT. OAK and SFO are definitely not the same, any more than Burbank, Long Beach, Ontario, Orange County are the same as LAX.
2. "When the computer decides which one to cancel, it will cancel the more expensive one." Um, NOT - I ultimately canceled the OAK-DEN-OAK version and after applying the refunds to my reinstated SFO trip, ended up with $50 in travel credits because the SFO option was cheaper
I totally get that double-booking ties up inventory and it was a loophole that we've all gotten comfortable exploiting. But how about these more friendly options for your more aggressive enforcement, SWA:
1. Program your computers to keep me from making these "duplicate" arrangements in the first place.
2. Send me an email saying, "Hey, you've screwed up, fix it or we'll fix it for you."
I'd have been happy with either one of those options. But arbitrarily cancelling a round-trip, and choosing the wrong one? NOT ACCEPTABLE!!!
I was stunned this morning when I received a cancellation notice for the SFO-DEN-SFO trip. I called and spent an hour on the phone sorting it out. I was told:
1. "The computer sees OAK and SFO as the same, so it identified this as a duplicate." Um, NOT. OAK and SFO are definitely not the same, any more than Burbank, Long Beach, Ontario, Orange County are the same as LAX.
2. "When the computer decides which one to cancel, it will cancel the more expensive one." Um, NOT - I ultimately canceled the OAK-DEN-OAK version and after applying the refunds to my reinstated SFO trip, ended up with $50 in travel credits because the SFO option was cheaper
I totally get that double-booking ties up inventory and it was a loophole that we've all gotten comfortable exploiting. But how about these more friendly options for your more aggressive enforcement, SWA:
1. Program your computers to keep me from making these "duplicate" arrangements in the first place.
2. Send me an email saying, "Hey, you've screwed up, fix it or we'll fix it for you."
I'd have been happy with either one of those options. But arbitrarily cancelling a round-trip, and choosing the wrong one? NOT ACCEPTABLE!!!
2) I'd say they got your attention pretty quickly. Maybe they figure people would respond to a cancellation a lot quicker than a milder email
So you can game the system and it's acceptable, they on the other hand take action to negate your gaming and that's a problem?
Welcome to FlyerTalk BTW
Last edited by birdiedouble; Mar 10, 2017 at 9:52 am
Mar 10, 2017, 11:41 am
#53
Moderator: Southwest Airlines, Capital One
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
Programs: WN Companion Pass, A-list preferred, Hyatt Globalist; United Club Lietime (sic) Member
Posts: 21,619
Mar 10, 2017, 12:49 pm
#55
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Cancelling the "wrong" vs. the "right" ticket is a common complaint with all carriers. No algorithm has the capability of looking into the passenger's head and knowing that. The fact is that once you violate the contract, WN could cancel both and you would not have even a remote complaint (or you might have one, but nobody would care).
It is asking a lot of some software code to know which ticket you wish to fly when you yourself do not know that.
In turn, while it is theoretically possible for air carriers, WN included, to develop software which could instantly identify impossible ticketing, that is an expensive and task and expensive operation and there is no need of it given that it is simply prohibited.
The tougher situation is for non-regular WN fliers. Travel credits are fine for the regular flier because the credit will be used one way or another. But, if you do this as a non-regular flier, say you are here from Europe and won't be back for a few years, you have a credit which is of no value.
It is asking a lot of some software code to know which ticket you wish to fly when you yourself do not know that.
In turn, while it is theoretically possible for air carriers, WN included, to develop software which could instantly identify impossible ticketing, that is an expensive and task and expensive operation and there is no need of it given that it is simply prohibited.
The tougher situation is for non-regular WN fliers. Travel credits are fine for the regular flier because the credit will be used one way or another. But, if you do this as a non-regular flier, say you are here from Europe and won't be back for a few years, you have a credit which is of no value.
Mar 10, 2017, 1:30 pm
#56
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,813
Southwest should proactively develop their system to prohibit making duplicate reservations, especially if they are going to consider nearby airports as the same. Obviously they have software which can identify these reservation, or they couldn't run simply run it when they confirm the reservation?
As for refunds, if their system allow you to make reservation in violation of their own rules, and they later cancel that is not entirely the passengers fault, and they should refund to the original form of payment, including recreating TTFs and Gift Cards if those were used. There is a legitimate claim that could be made that not fixing this is causing unsuspecting consumers to be lured into losing their money.
As for refunds, if their system allow you to make reservation in violation of their own rules, and they later cancel that is not entirely the passengers fault, and they should refund to the original form of payment, including recreating TTFs and Gift Cards if those were used. There is a legitimate claim that could be made that not fixing this is causing unsuspecting consumers to be lured into losing their money.
Mar 10, 2017, 2:22 pm
#57
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
It isn't just the same airport or city, it is any reservation made without the intent to travel. Whatever WN's shortcomings, the COC are written in plain English and nobody is "unsuspecting". If you purchase tickets from OAK and SFO at roughly the same time, it is not much of a stretch to determine that you didn't intend to fly at least one of those.
[B]Multiple Reservations. Southwest prohibits multiple reservations for the same
Passenger departing from the same city on the same date. Furthermore, without
notice to the Passenger or purchaser, Southwest may cancel such reservations or
any other reservations that it believes, in its sole discretion, were made without intent to travel. [/B]
[B]Multiple Reservations. Southwest prohibits multiple reservations for the same
Passenger departing from the same city on the same date. Furthermore, without
notice to the Passenger or purchaser, Southwest may cancel such reservations or
any other reservations that it believes, in its sole discretion, were made without intent to travel. [/B]
Mar 10, 2017, 3:13 pm
#58
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,813
Only about 1 in a million passengers reads the CoC. And much of it is not really written in "plain English" but a combination of legalese and indefinite ambiguities.
Mar 10, 2017, 5:10 pm
#59
Moderator: Southwest Airlines, Capital One
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
Programs: WN Companion Pass, A-list preferred, Hyatt Globalist; United Club Lietime (sic) Member
Posts: 21,619
Southwest should proactively develop their system to prohibit making duplicate reservations, especially if they are going to consider nearby airports as the same. Obviously they have software which can identify these reservation, or they couldn't run simply run it when they confirm the reservation?
Mar 10, 2017, 5:16 pm
#60
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: ORD, MDW or MKE
Programs: American and Southwest. Hilton and Marriott hotels primarily.
Posts: 6,459
Southwest should proactively develop their system to prohibit making duplicate reservations, especially if they are going to consider nearby airports as the same. Obviously they have software which can identify these reservation, or they couldn't run simply run it when they confirm the reservation?
As for refunds, if their system allow you to make reservation in violation of their own rules, and they later cancel that is not entirely the passengers fault, and they should refund to the original form of payment, including recreating TTFs and Gift Cards if those were used. There is a legitimate claim that could be made that not fixing this is causing unsuspecting consumers to be lured into losing their money.
As for refunds, if their system allow you to make reservation in violation of their own rules, and they later cancel that is not entirely the passengers fault, and they should refund to the original form of payment, including recreating TTFs and Gift Cards if those were used. There is a legitimate claim that could be made that not fixing this is causing unsuspecting consumers to be lured into losing their money.
I'm not clear why all these things should happen. The only 'should' is that they should reinstate when truly doable multiple reservations are made and cancelled.