sunpass

I flew WN flight 1142 from BWI to LAS on 6/12.

The plane was flying at near capacity. During boarding I saw two separate incidents.

1] A mother had paid for an early bird fare for herself and drew A19. Her eleven year old daughter traveling with her drew C45. The daughter did not have early bird. The mother stormed past the gate check and down the jetway when A16-30 were called with daughter in tow.

The WN gate agent called the MDTA police. They went down the jetway and retrieved mother and daughter from the plane. A discussion followed in the waiting area for the gate between the woman, the state police and a WN representative. The mom insisted she could board as A-19 with her minor child regardless of the child's boarding number as she was a minor. She was told no and as far as I could tell she did not end up boarding the flight.

The second incident involved a family who were sitting across A, D, E, F of row 16, the emergency exit row. The two small children were in D and F and could not sit there under safety regulations. They were told they would have to move.

The children moved with their mother elsewhere in the back of the plane. The father, still sitting in A16, started loudly protesting to flight attendants about the move. Eventually he said something to all four attendants who had gathered around him. They left and soon a supervisor with WN at BWI came on board and told the man to get his bags, he wasnt flying on that flight.

My questions are:

1] In situation one should the mother simply have waited for family boarding? Was it likely she was able to get a credit for her unused fare money as she checked in and tried to board the flight?

2] Is someone who is kicked off the flight by WN personnel (not arrested) before departure eligible to fly on a subsequent flight? Do they have to pay additional fare money to do so?

I was happy. I had drawn C35 as my boarding number and I subsequently ended up with F16, the window seat with the seat in front removed providing double leg room. Miracles do happen

rsteinmetz70112

Under the rules the daughter is too old for family boarding but that might have been overlooked. As for the fare see below. If I'm wrong someone will correct me.

From the FAQ:
Family boarding used to be 4 years old it was recently raised, I think it is still too low and should be the same as UM. But they don't ask me.

I think that depends on what happens outside the plane. If the person seems reasonable or there is a reasonable explanation they may let the passenger take a later flight. All I think the airline is required to do is refund the fare and let the passenger make alternate arrangements. I have heard of both alternates being used, but I have no direct experience.

Did you observe any reason for there being so many disruptive passengers? Was there a group traveling together or perhaps a common destination?

Often1

1. The mother could have boarded with her daughter at C46 or she could have purchased EBCI for the daughter and they could have boarded at A19-20. Law enforcement does not enforce WN's boarding or seating rules. All it does is keep the peace and, if asked, remove an unruly or unwanted passenger at the Captain's request.

2. Whether the loud mouth was permitted to fly later in the day or ever again is a decision WN gets to make. It is a private company and so long as it does not make decisions based on improper bases, e.g. race, color and so on, it is WN's judgment which prevails.

sunpass

My gut hunch as to why both parties were upset about seating arrangements - there was a sizable contingent of young teenagers traveling to LAS for a basketball tournament (as per the well wishes of the flight attendant during landing announcements). Both of the parties involved in boarding disputes were unusually adamant about being able to sit together with their children without specifically stating why.

There were not any other disruption problems on the flight. Everyone else seems to fall asleep on that trip at that time of night.

smmrfld

I'm really curious how OP knows so many details about these incidents.

sunpass

Because I moved within ear shot of the discussion between the passenger and the MdTA police at the gate and I was sitting in the same row across the aisle from the second dispute on the plane.

I took a photo of the terminal dispute as I was boarding, not to watch the police but rather to perhaps ask the mother later what had happened when we got to the baggage claim at LAS. Alas, she never boarded.

glg

The silly thing with mom/11 yo daughter is if mom had asked nicely (instead of the DYKWIA route), the GA likely would have let them board at A-19.

Dad with kids sitting in the exit row is just an idiot. Was he a Kettle? (obvious first time flyer)

sunpass

He was not a frequent flyer. He sounded like a kettle.

The mother in the terminal insisted that she had been allowed by other WN gate agents to use a single early bird and bring her daughter along.

smmrfld

Who knew that Gladys Kravitz flew WN???

rsteinmetz70112

That is very likely true and a direct result of Southwest's inconsistent application of their rules.

Although the description of her boarding seems to indicate she rushed down the jetway because she knew she wasn't supposed to be doing that.

nsx

It's not smart to defy anyone in a position of authority unless you are 100% in the right and you are prepared to take some temporary adverse consequences. These passengers are not likely to fly Southwest again, which we can agree is a win-win.

pinniped

Talk about two outrageously stupid pax.

Had both pax had half a brain, they wouldn't have had an issue.

- Mom could have boarded at A19, taken an aisle seat somewhere in the middle-rear of the plane, and saved the seat next to her for her daughter. Although seat-saving is a hot FT topic, a mom saving a single middle for her daughter wouldn't be contested onboard. Most of us would agree that's probably the least-douchy type of seat saving, on the continuum of seat-saving douchiness.

- Dad could have sat in the exit row with mom & kids one row behind. (Assuming Dad is the tall person in this case.) Although some airlines won't allow exit seat selection if *any* U15's are on the entire PNR, this isn't a factor on WN. Provided parents didn't leave a minor unaccompanied in a row, they'd never have a problem with the taller parent sitting in the exit row.

Somehow I doubt either passenger gets a true lifetime ban...provided they didn't go nuts on the cops in the gate area after the flight departed. If it turns out that both were complete n00bs to flying, then maybe they got a stern lecture and a flight later that day. We'll never know...

justhere

Probably true. Did you see her board and go down the jetway? Presumably the cops were called because the agent told her at the gate (or at least tried to say something to her about the child having to wait) and the mother just kept going. I doubt the cops would have been called otherwise. Just curious if you heard that exchange and what was/wasn't said.

LegalTender

Told by different agents on a different day and not agents working this flight, right?

A moth-eaten pretext. Given all the consideration it deserved.

sunpass

I heard the WN gate agent yelling something about "respect the boarding number procedure" as I walked back from the restroom. The jetway bridge door was closed, boarding was stopped and I saw the MdTA police come down to the gate five minutes later where they entered the jetway. The woman and her daughter were escorted out a few minutes later. I picked up on the conversation at that point.