SW I'm contacting the DOT regarding lack reward space for the original rewards
Jan 9, 2016, 8:35 pm
#16
Moderator: Southwest Airlines, Capital One
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
Programs: WN Companion Pass, A-list preferred, Hyatt Globalist; United Club Lietime (sic) Member
Posts: 21,619
I don't expect to gain from this, just for the DOT to metaphorically slap SW on the wrist. Airlines hate DOT complaints (except the UA Denmark mistake complaints which wasted everyone's time) and I think it's nasty what SW is doing regarding availability of those old legacy awards.
I don't doubt that you are seeing tight availability for the flights you want, but I do doubt that you would have seen anything better a year or two earlier under the same circumstances.
People here would be enthusiastically agreeing with your observations if they were the rule, so they must be the exception.
Jan 10, 2016, 6:53 am
#18
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: dark side of the moon
Programs: papa card, UA 1K
Posts: 707
All the savvy fliers I know rarely fly SW and only a few of them have legacy awards - Quite frankly it is not worth their time to complain (I've brought it up) - it's not as if you are going after a first class LH from FRA.......It's somewhat the principle and I would like to use them if possible.
Jan 10, 2016, 9:19 am
#19
Join Date: Oct 2001
Programs: LTP, PP
Posts: 8,698
I have been using standard awards regularly for well over 10 years. I have seen no deterioration in availability over the last several years. Furthermore, I believe the allocation algorithm has not been modified in recent years.
I don't doubt that you are seeing tight availability for the flights you want, but I do doubt that you would have seen anything better a year or two earlier under the same circumstances.
People here would be enthusiastically agreeing with your observations if they were the rule, so they must be the exception.
I don't doubt that you are seeing tight availability for the flights you want, but I do doubt that you would have seen anything better a year or two earlier under the same circumstances.
People here would be enthusiastically agreeing with your observations if they were the rule, so they must be the exception.
But its all moot as they all go away 5/13/16 anyway to a tiny subset of those who seeded a final award...
Jan 10, 2016, 4:03 pm
#21
Moderator: Southwest Airlines, Capital One
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
Programs: WN Companion Pass, A-list preferred, Hyatt Globalist; United Club Lietime (sic) Member
Posts: 21,619
As I understand it, an award seat is opened on a flight (per flight number, not per one-way trip) if and only if a WGA cash seat would be offered at a fare of $X for that flight. The value of X does NOT equal any cash fare bucket price. It is probably at or below the low end of cash prices.
For a flight from A to B, X is computed as the anticipated fare earned in the A-B market averaged over all customers on flights from A to B. If 90% of the customers are on $49 fares from A to B the average fare earned will be a little higher than $50. If 50% of the customers are paying $80 to fly A to B to C, then the A to B portion might earn only $40 from those customers, pulling down the average.
The algorithm is far from transparent, but my experience is simpler to summarize. If a short haul flight would sell out at $100 minimum fare that flight is not likely to have standard awards open. Think Friday and Sunday peak hour flights. These flights earn above-average yields so they don't get award seats.
If a long-haul flight would sell out at $200 minimum fare, same thing. That kind of fight has above-average yield. You can get an unpopular flight with a standard award, especially late in the game when the pricing engine decides that the flight is not going to sell out for cash fares. You will not get a seat on a popular flight that has high yield unless at the last minute the pricing engine decides that cash purchases have come up short of expectations.
I believe that other airlines allocate their saver award seats very similarly, except that premium class awards sometimes get no last-minute boost to inventory even if the sales fall short of expectation.
For a flight from A to B, X is computed as the anticipated fare earned in the A-B market averaged over all customers on flights from A to B. If 90% of the customers are on $49 fares from A to B the average fare earned will be a little higher than $50. If 50% of the customers are paying $80 to fly A to B to C, then the A to B portion might earn only $40 from those customers, pulling down the average.
The algorithm is far from transparent, but my experience is simpler to summarize. If a short haul flight would sell out at $100 minimum fare that flight is not likely to have standard awards open. Think Friday and Sunday peak hour flights. These flights earn above-average yields so they don't get award seats.
If a long-haul flight would sell out at $200 minimum fare, same thing. That kind of fight has above-average yield. You can get an unpopular flight with a standard award, especially late in the game when the pricing engine decides that the flight is not going to sell out for cash fares. You will not get a seat on a popular flight that has high yield unless at the last minute the pricing engine decides that cash purchases have come up short of expectations.
I believe that other airlines allocate their saver award seats very similarly, except that premium class awards sometimes get no last-minute boost to inventory even if the sales fall short of expectation.
Jan 11, 2016, 6:06 pm
#22
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: dark side of the moon
Programs: papa card, UA 1K
Posts: 707
As I understand it, an award seat is opened on a flight (per flight number, not per one-way trip) if and only if a WGA cash seat would be offered at a fare of $X for that flight. The value of X does NOT equal any cash fare bucket price. It is probably at or below the low end of cash prices.
For a flight from A to B, X is computed as the anticipated fare earned in the A-B market averaged over all customers on flights from A to B. If 90% of the customers are on $49 fares from A to B the average fare earned will be a little higher than $50. If 50% of the customers are paying $80 to fly A to B to C, then the A to B portion might earn only $40 from those customers, pulling down the average.
The algorithm is far from transparent, but my experience is simpler to summarize. If a short haul flight would sell out at $100 minimum fare that flight is not likely to have standard awards open. Think Friday and Sunday peak hour flights. These flights earn above-average yields so they don't get award seats.
If a long-haul flight would sell out at $200 minimum fare, same thing. That kind of fight has above-average yield. You can get an unpopular flight with a standard award, especially late in the game when the pricing engine decides that the flight is not going to sell out for cash fares. You will not get a seat on a popular flight that has high yield unless at the last minute the pricing engine decides that cash purchases have come up short of expectations.
I believe that other airlines allocate their saver award seats very similarly, except that premium class awards sometimes get no last-minute boost to inventory even if the sales fall short of expectation.
For a flight from A to B, X is computed as the anticipated fare earned in the A-B market averaged over all customers on flights from A to B. If 90% of the customers are on $49 fares from A to B the average fare earned will be a little higher than $50. If 50% of the customers are paying $80 to fly A to B to C, then the A to B portion might earn only $40 from those customers, pulling down the average.
The algorithm is far from transparent, but my experience is simpler to summarize. If a short haul flight would sell out at $100 minimum fare that flight is not likely to have standard awards open. Think Friday and Sunday peak hour flights. These flights earn above-average yields so they don't get award seats.
If a long-haul flight would sell out at $200 minimum fare, same thing. That kind of fight has above-average yield. You can get an unpopular flight with a standard award, especially late in the game when the pricing engine decides that the flight is not going to sell out for cash fares. You will not get a seat on a popular flight that has high yield unless at the last minute the pricing engine decides that cash purchases have come up short of expectations.
I believe that other airlines allocate their saver award seats very similarly, except that premium class awards sometimes get no last-minute boost to inventory even if the sales fall short of expectation.