xliioper

I don't think the legacies so much ignored WN as they had their own issues to deal with (fuel prices, bankruptcy, etc). The reality is the legacy model is quite different from WN's and it's not clear they would have succeeded if they tried to copy the WN model (or VX/B6). There's still a role for the legacies, just a smaller one as the LCC and ULCC's have been picking up pax who don't have a need for the legacy model.

I don't think WN is entirely ignoring the ULCC's (I see some price matching for flights on the same routes with similar departure times). By the way, DL never stopped serving free snacks in coach and UA is bringing them back --

http://newsroom.united.com/2015-12-0...gnature-Snacks

hazelrah

Delta tried with Song and USairways with Metrojet and they failed miserably.

Over the holidays I was speaking with my brother in Baltimore who works for a large corporation. He used to travel on Southwest all the time as out of Baltimore Southwest was frequently cheapest and most convenient. He remarked to me that he was just losing A-list status, as his corporation is forcing all its travelers to use corporate negotiated fares with the lagacies. Maybe that's the role of the lagacies, i.e. corporate contract fares.

diver858

This policy is designed for TV ads, but in practice is deceiving, intended to mislead the uninformed. For me, the big fail is same day standby. On AA for example, I can book the last flight of the day on my return from a trip (which is often the lowest fare), simply show up when done with meetings, standby for an earlier flight. In the case of WN, I am forced to buy a new, anytime ticket. In the case of the MDW-PHX example above, that $41 WGA deal (now >$250) goes to >$500! AA also has a $49 ORD-PHX for Jan 19 (5 am departure), evening flights are $149, which would qualify for FREE same day standby; spending a few $$ more for choice plus includes a checked bag, no change fees - and keeps the FREE same day standby.

diver858

To continue to maintain market share, grow in a hyper competitive environment, WN has few options.
1. AA and DL (and soon UA) are making significant efforts to woo back higher value business travelers with improved amenities and services, structure frequent flyer programs to reward higher revenue customers.
2. Full service carriers offer interlining agreements, which all but eliminate the WN stranding nightmares AGAIN this past holiday season. This is a SIGNIFICANT consideration for business travelers.
3. The new AA management appears to be very focused on profitability, willing to drop routes, downgauge to keep planes full, minimize the need to deep discount fares to fill seats. The classic example is JFK-LAX service - implemented by the prior management: downgauged to more frequent, customized A321, with 3 classes of service, reducing the size of the economy cabin, focusing on lucrative first and business customers.
4. AA has greatly simplified its route structure, most flights now simply fly to and from its major cornerstones.

WN's current system may be simple and efficient, but at the end of the day, it limits options to grow. If I were Gary Kelly, I would seriously consider transcon (west to east) redeyes as a source of new revenues without adding more planes, where AA has successfully leveraged their MD80 to 737 conversion. In my case, the SAN-MIA redeye has made leisure travel to Florida, the Caribbean, Mexican Rivera and Central America quite convenient.

RoyalFlush

Spirit check-in areas always seem swamped for several reasons.

1. They're TERRIBLY understaffed
2. pax that are simply not used to flying
3. pax surprised they have to pay extra $$$$$$ for bags (yes, even tho that fact is plasterd EVERYWHERE)



Can anyone upthread give me an example of an UNREASONABLE Southwest airfare?

I've seen in the past few months $250+ DAL/HOU walk-up one-way. That's not unreasonable, it just tells me their 30+ non-stops in each direction are fairly full.

I'll give you some examples of o/w walk-ups I came across in the last year.

UAX Casper-DEN $686 (YES, $686)
UAX RAP-DEN $583 (yea, a tad unreasonable)

I understand WN doesn't really serve small inter-mountain West towns. But are their fares from BOI? GEG? unreasonable? Me thinks not.

...a few of my past flights, all purchased <1 week (most cases <12 hours notice)

RNO-DAL $121
DAL-PBI $153
MCO-MDW $109

With no bag fees + no change fees.

Yes, I paid $500+ on Southwest o/w walk-up DEN-BOS. But UA was $599 with bag fees. $500+ is steep, but within reason. PVD was $399.

Airfares tend to be artifically underpriced anyhow.

I'm curious, where are the WN unreasonable fares?

TravelerMSY

Southwest can't really lower the walk up fare if loads are light because the people already ticketed on the flight would re-price and pocket the savings.

justhere

I know this is only one example but I've seen it on this route many times over the years:

March 11 AA non-stop PHX-FLL $179
March 11 WN non-stop PHX-FLL $328

AA is a red-eye. Daytime flight is $255. Still cheaper even checking a bag and you get an assigned seat.

NextTrip

We can go round and round about this with example after example.

March 16 AA non-stop LAX-LAS $102 (Choice)
March 16 WN non-stop LAX-LAS $41 (WGA)

Sometimes WN is higher. Sometimes WN is lower.

RoyalFlush

Exactly.

$328 for two-thirds across the country for spring break season to/from Florida is hardly unreasonable.

Now, if SWA was charging $550 DEN/BOI, SLC/PDX, other short sectors, that'd be unreasonable.

justhere

I know that. I was just offering an example of an unreasonable fare as the poster I responded to asked for an example.

justhere

Distance has very little, if anything, to do with fares. $328 isn't very reasonable when other airlines are offering a very similar product for almost half the price.

texashoser

Then fly AA PHX -> FLL.

justhere

You know context is everything. If you look at my post where I first posted this, I was simply giving an example to answer another poster's question. Which, by the way, changed the context of this thread. The original question was asking if WN fares are generally higher than other airlines.

The poster I responded to changed that by talking about whether WN fares are reasonable, which is something different.

However, to answer their question and to try to stay on-topic, I gave an example that is normally quite easy to replicate of where WN fares are generally higher than other airlines and aren't very reasonable when you consider the substantial difference in cost.

I never said that I wouldn't fly AA on that route. I have flown that route many times and never once have I flown WN because they were always more expensive and unreasonably so.

Again, I was simply responding to RoyalFlush who asked for an example of an unreasonable fare. Hope that clarifies what I was trying to get across.

texashoser

I understand what you're trying to get across. But the word 'reasonable' is a relative term. Just because something costs more doesn't make it unreasonable relative to a cheaper option. Flight times matter too, all things else being equal. On that day AA has two non-stops. One is at 9:46 am and is priced at $255. WN's is at 11:15 and priced at $328.

That $179 non-stop you mentioned? It's at 11:00 pm and doesn't get you to FLL until 5:00 am the next day. So comparing that flight to WN's is apples to oranges. You also have the supply-and-demand factor. That WN flight might be almost full. In that case, you don't match what other airlines are doing because you don't need to.

justhere

I don't disagree with you. I even pointed out in my post that the cheaper AA flight was a red-eye.

I also said that it was but one example. I didn't say that it proves anything nor did I try to impose my sense of reasonableness on to anyone else. I simply offered it as an example to help answer a question.

I disagree, however, that it's apples to oranges. AA flight is only 90 minutes earlier and while that may or may not work for any given traveler it is close enough that it's fair to use it as a comparison.

As has been pointed out ad nauseam, sometimes WN is cheaper, sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's a better option and sometimes it's not. Sometimes people will pay more to stick with their preferred airline and sometimes they won't.

I didn't put all this in my OP because the question I was answering didn't ask about all that. I just gave one possible example and noted it was just one example. I wasn't looking for people to agree or disagree with it. I fully understand that some will and some won't and they'll make their own judgement on it.

In general though, I will say the WN fares PHX-South Florida are generally higher than other airlines, IMHO. To me, the difference in fares sometimes are unreasonable.