Rapid Rewards devaluation coming April 17, 2015
Feb 12, 2015, 10:36 pm
#76
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,286
It seems that they have already updated the "How to Redeem" page in website in advance: https://www.southwest.com/rapidrewards/how-to-redeem
Which means:
How many points per dollar does it cost to redeem for a ticket?
Whatever the f**k we feel like charging you.
Whatever the f**k we feel like charging you.
Feb 12, 2015, 10:50 pm
#77
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NYC
Posts: 556
It seems that they have already updated the "How to Redeem" page in website in advance: https://www.southwest.com/rapidrewards/how-to-redeem
The number of points needed for a reward flight depends on the fare. Just like fares, reward pricing can vary based on destination, time, day of travel, demand, fare class, point redemption rate, and other factors and is subject to change.
https://www.southwest.com/html/custo...deeming_points
"Point redemption rate" sounds like a new factor.
Feb 13, 2015, 6:59 am
#79
Join Date: May 2007
Location: MDW
Programs: WN CP & A-List Pref, HH Gold, Marriott LT PP
Posts: 708
I heard an interesting rumor just yesterday that WN has been talking to HA. Normally, I would dismiss it as just another rumor but with the announced upcoming "program enhancements" to RR, maybe there's actually some substance behind it. I could see WN making program changes if some form of Hawaii service was in the cards. Let's hope these changes come along with some big service announcement, otherwise WN is really sticking it to us. As our friend Scotty says, "Let the speculation begin!"
Feb 13, 2015, 7:19 am
#80
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,973
It's a factor multiplication that increases the effect exponentially.
If, right now, some flights cost, say, 2x to 3x more on certain nights for example, then you pay 2x to 3x more points. Cash and points fares are linked.
In the new scheme, you pay 2x to 3x more points, plus an additional multiplier on the points redemption value; i.e. 70/1$ regular becomes 80/$1 or 90/$1 (or more). Cash and points fares aren't linked anymore.
The effect is much, much greater.
Now… I suppose it's possible (but not probable) that Southwest will do the opposite, in effect "leveling" the cost of points based bookings.
Low cost fares would use a higher points multiplier, and higher ones a lower multiplier.
But this seems very unlikely.
If, right now, some flights cost, say, 2x to 3x more on certain nights for example, then you pay 2x to 3x more points. Cash and points fares are linked.
In the new scheme, you pay 2x to 3x more points, plus an additional multiplier on the points redemption value; i.e. 70/1$ regular becomes 80/$1 or 90/$1 (or more). Cash and points fares aren't linked anymore.
The effect is much, much greater.
Now… I suppose it's possible (but not probable) that Southwest will do the opposite, in effect "leveling" the cost of points based bookings.
Low cost fares would use a higher points multiplier, and higher ones a lower multiplier.
But this seems very unlikely.
If the paid fare is competitive, under the current system the points cost is proportional and reasonable. If they don't want too many people going on points, they need to set a cash fare that's more than people will pay. Now they're making it so they won't be under those constraints.
Feb 13, 2015, 7:35 am
#81
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Chicagoland, IL, USA
Programs: WN CP, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 14,174
I fail to see a reason why they won't just do this every 12-18 months from now on. I have not seen their Facebook blow up much, so why wouldn't they?
Every time they do it, tens or maybe hundreds of millions of liability comes off the balance sheet.
Every time they do it, tens or maybe hundreds of millions of liability comes off the balance sheet.
Feb 13, 2015, 7:58 am
#82
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,813
Their Facebook page hasn't blown up because people who use Facebook don't read email.
In fact the announcement was done in a manner calculated to avoid notice.
The whole thing is highly cynical and the latest step toward Legacydom for Southwest.
Feb 13, 2015, 8:18 am
#83
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: AA EXP, DL-Plat, WN-CP | Hotels: Choice-Gld, IHG-Plt, Rad-Gld, HH-Dia, Hyatt-Glob, Marriott-LtPlt
Posts: 2,889
First, since we may get other folks who haven't flown WN much, let's be clear about how to calculate the rate - my thoughts on what makes sense for us:
- Post only WGA fares (no AT or BS fares since it never represented a good value proposition in RR 2.x);
- Post the (a) route; (b) flight #; (c) departure time; (d) day of the week; and (e) calendar day of the subject flight;
- Post the WGA points required for redemption;
- Post the WGA base fare (exclusive of Excise Taxes, Segment Fees, Passenger Facility Charges, Security Fees, etc.) because that is what the current 70 pts/$1 WGA redemption ration is based on. [This takes effort - one has to click the paid fare and then choose the "Fare Breakdown" to see the base fare] Note - It doesn't hurt to post the all-in price, but, we'll need the base fare to see what the applicable ratio is; and
- Post the ratio SWA used for the redemption (i.e, do the math);
- EDITED TO ADD: We should probably post when the fare was calculated in the wiki since they may increase the 70pts/$1 ratio for close-in bookings.
So, an example data point post might be something like:
MDW-TUS (WN#867) 8:20am, Wednesday, July 22, 2015 (WGA fare):
12,372 Points required
$176.74 Base Fare ($204.10 all-in fare)
70.00 points/$1 of WGA Base Fare
[found 2/13/2015]
And, maybe we can utilize the wiki feature to succinctly summarize the information based on information posted. Maybe a list for each day with the summary of the flight and applicable redemption rate below? Like:
Wednesday, July 22, 2015 (WGA fare)
8:20am - MDW-TUS (WN#867): 70.00 points/$1 of WGA Base Fare [found 2/13/2015]
10:55am - PDX-LAS (WN#798): 70.00 points/$1 of WGA Base Fare [found 2/13/2015]
Thursday, July 23, 2015 (WGA fare)
1:55pm - DCA-MKE (WN#2944): 70.00 points/$1 of WGA Base Fare [found 2/13/2015]
We could include a lot more factors (like aircraft type, flight duration, etc.), but, that added effort might dissuade folks from posting.
Others' thoughts?
Last edited by FindAWay; Feb 13, 2015 at 3:35 pm
Feb 13, 2015, 8:21 am
#84
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,012
Feb 13, 2015, 8:25 am
#85
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: ATL
Programs: HH D, MB G, IHG P, Nat'l EE, Hertz PC
Posts: 496
I think it's possible that they're doing something to the sliding scale redemption rates they already have in place within the WGA group, whereby cheaper fares require a smaller number of RR points per dollar than more expensive WGA fares do.
Feb 13, 2015, 8:32 am
#86
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,813
Let's start thinking about the best way to organize/post such a thread (I suggest waiting until 4/17 to create it so that it is filled with datapoints [something like the boarding card/position threads] and not clogged-up with discussion, which discussion can remain in this thread).
Feb 13, 2015, 8:42 am
#87
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: AA EXP, DL-Plat, WN-CP | Hotels: Choice-Gld, IHG-Plt, Rad-Gld, HH-Dia, Hyatt-Glob, Marriott-LtPlt
Posts: 2,889
I'm not sure whether the 4/17 date is the date the new rates will become effective (I kind of think it is) or if it's the date they will be published. I kind of suspect the new rates will be part of the extension to be published February 19 for flights after April 17, since the schedule is already published through August 7th.
Feb 13, 2015, 8:47 am
#88
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,286
There is no sliding scale within WGA. Fares are currently 70 points per 1$ of base fare. What you describe is what the new change will bring.
Feb 13, 2015, 8:55 am
#89
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,813
I already have one points ticket I need to purchase for August 10, I've bought the outbound leg and was waiting for the schedule extension to get the return leg.
I also suspect that they will be sneaky about implementing this change with relatively few changes immediately and a slow increases in the coming weeks and months. We likely won't know the full impact for some time.
Feb 13, 2015, 9:03 am
#90
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: ATL
Programs: HH D, MB G, IHG P, Nat'l EE, Hertz PC
Posts: 496
$45.10-$5.60 = $39.50, which is the value of using RR points
$39.50/2,019 points is 1.956 cents/point value
A $272.10 WGA fare costs 16,540 RR points.$272.10-$5.60 = $266.50, which is the value of using RR points
$266.50/16,540 points is 1.611 cents/point value
This is, of course, ignoring the fact that you can buy WN GCs at a discount, and the fact that paid fares earn RR points, but shows that lower fares within the WGA bucket are a better value in terms of cents/point.
