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Family Asked To Leave Southwest Flight After Tweet

Family Asked To Leave Southwest Flight After Tweet

Old Jul 23, 2014, 2:37 pm
  #91  
 
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Originally Posted by LAtraveler1
No I didn't miss it. As you have cavalierly dismissed the pax's account as one that can be taken with a grain of salt, it is very CLEAR to me whose side you are on.

Enough said!!!
I didn't dismiss the passenger's account. I merely don't take it at face value.

So, do you take the passenger's account as absolute, infallible truth?

Your continued mis-characterization of my viewpoint and statements is pretty funny.

As I have stated, I'm on NEITHER SIDE. Although, having interacted with humans before, I think it probable that they both acted poorly.

Last edited by FindAWay; Jul 23, 2014 at 2:51 pm
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Old Jul 23, 2014, 2:41 pm
  #92  
 
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Independently of what the chap actually said, if you're willing to allow him to board him on the condition that he delete a tweet that means either the GA was willing to board somebody they perceived as threatening or they never felt threatened in the first place. In both cases (assuming that part of the story is true) I hope that particular GA gets permanently relieved from the responsibility of making this decision.

And by threatening I mean physically. Just threatening to cause inconvenience by tweeting about you in such a way that your employer can identify you is a bit annoying, but something the GA would simply have to put up with as part of her job.
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Old Jul 23, 2014, 2:43 pm
  #93  
 
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OK, I've read through most of this thread, and after reading the story, it comes down to this:

The pax was not in the right, the GA was enforcing the rules. The pax had some sense of entitlement (DYKWIA?!) and thought he and his minor travelers were exempt from the rules.

Too many times, people tend to think they can simply override the rules by sending out a Tweet, hoping to catch the news or Reddit level of attention and let the public be the arbiter of the rules. This guy - if it was really that big of a deal - should have waited until he got home to send the tweet. Don't threaten the GA. Don't make a stink on the flight. Don't do something that could be labeled as crazy/unstable, because that's how you find yourself being deplaned.
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Old Jul 23, 2014, 2:46 pm
  #94  
 
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Originally Posted by ohange
OK, I've read through most of this thread, and after reading the story, it comes down to this:

The pax was not in the right, the GA was enforcing the rules. The pax had some sense of entitlement (DYKWIA?!) and thought he and his minor travelers were exempt from the rules.

Too many times, people tend to think they can simply override the rules by sending out a Tweet, hoping to catch the news or Reddit level of attention and let the public be the arbiter of the rules. This guy - if it was really that big of a deal - should have waited until he got home to send the tweet. Don't threaten the GA. Don't make a stink on the flight. Don't do something that could be labeled as crazy/unstable, because that's how you find yourself being deplaned.
You might want to do some more reading, as your interpertation is pretty far off from the reported events.
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Old Jul 23, 2014, 2:50 pm
  #95  
 
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Originally Posted by TravellingSalesman
Independently of what the chap actually said, if you're willing to allow him to board him on the condition that he delete a tweet that means either the GA was willing to board somebody they perceived as threatening or they never felt threatened in the first place. In both cases (assuming that part of the story is true) I hope that particular GA gets permanently relieved from the responsibility of making this decision.

And by threatening I mean physically. Just threatening to cause inconvenience by tweeting about you in such a way that your employer can identify you is a bit annoying, but something the GA would simply have to put up with as part of her job.
Exactly. Since they were allowed to reboard and fly after deleting the tweet, it's clear that the "threat" perceived by the GA was in being publicly called rude via social media.
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Old Jul 23, 2014, 2:57 pm
  #96  
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Originally Posted by ohange
OK, I've read through most of this thread, and after reading the story, it comes down to this:

The pax was not in the right, the GA was enforcing the rules. The pax had some sense of entitlement (DYKWIA?!) and thought he and his minor travelers were exempt from the rules.

Too many times, people tend to think they can simply override the rules by sending out a Tweet, hoping to catch the news or Reddit level of attention and let the public be the arbiter of the rules. This guy - if it was really that big of a deal - should have waited until he got home to send the tweet. Don't threaten the GA. Don't make a stink on the flight. Don't do something that could be labeled as crazy/unstable, because that's how you find yourself being deplaned.
Welcome to the thread.
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Old Jul 23, 2014, 3:01 pm
  #97  
 
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Originally Posted by ursine1
You might want to do some more reading, as your interpertation is pretty far off from the reported events.
Fair enough - I had read the story on another source before reading it here.

I think the GA was certainly right for the policy, but simultaneously was over the line in her reaction and demanding him deplane unless the tweet was deleted.
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Old Jul 23, 2014, 3:04 pm
  #98  
 
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Originally Posted by Tizzette
How is a Gate Agent threatened by a passenger who is on a plane already and flying away?
My thought exactly.

Let's see. Guy threatens GA. Guy is safely on the plane and physically away from the GA. GA then decides that the thing to do, for her safety is to pull the already agitated guy off the plane and bring him back to where she is at.

When I feel physically threatened by someone the last things I want to do are to 1) piss them off even more; and 2) move them closer to me.

Also, for those saying that this is not a free speech issue, consider that the GA used her power (which is granted by the government) to intimidate a US citizen for the content of his speech. She threatened to have him arrested. That was a credible threat because the US government has granted broad powers to airline employees when dealing with customers. This situation did involve the threat of government action.
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Old Jul 23, 2014, 3:24 pm
  #99  
 
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Originally Posted by flyventure
Where did I say the employee was in the right with the way they behaved? Never said that. What I did say is that people should never be shocked when there is a reaction to what they say. You really think memos are going to go out to the work force? You are clueless to how the company operates. The employee in question will probably have a hearing and get a reprimand, but otherwise the situation won't get much more attention than that.

What should do the GA have done? Simply denied allowing the A-List pax to board early with the kids and say he can go with them later at their spot or they can board separately. When he started getting an attitude with the GA, she should have just referred him to Customer Relations if he isn't happy with the policy. They would have gave him a voucher to make him feel like a special snowflake and move on to the next person.
So, you're right, I don't know SWA, but I do have firsthand experience with other companies, including one of SouthWest's competitors.

Customer service executives understand how challenging the job can be. Customers aren't always angels, and some of the stuff I've seen and heard boggles the mind. From customers exposing themselves to reps over video chat, physical threats, physical assaults... Merely having a bad attitude or complaining about something where the customer is clearly in the wrong is actually pretty tame.

Which brings us to the demands of the job. Anyone in customer service is going to have to deal with people that are sometimes unhappy, upset, dissatisfied, having a bad day, etc. A good customer-facing employee is not the one that just gives them whatever they want (that's the easy way out, and companies have policies for a reason), but is able to be firm with the rules while also staying pleasant and empathetic:

"I understand you feel your children should be able to board with you, Mr. Watson, but unfortunately our rules clearly state you board with the last zone in your party. If you're worried about lack of overhead space, I'd be happy to gate check your bag free of charge..."

If the customer gets combative / negative, you have to remain above the fray. Nothing good will come from an argument, and that customer might normally be the nicest person who just found out they lost their job, or a relative died.

Maybe the GA actually did that, and the passenger was completely wrong in his characterization of her service. Quite frankly, it doesn't really matter, what does matter is that someone pulled the pax and his kids off the flight, and demanded he delete the tweet. That's egregious, and clearly crossing the line.

Take the recent Comcast retention call that's been getting so much news. In both cases, company management is going to get wind of this, want to know what happened, how it happened, and what is being done to keep it from happening again. Sure, they want the specific instance dealt with, but they're going to want to know why it happened in the first place. Did the employee(s) really not know the policy or procedure? Did they just ignore it? When was the last time they were trained on this? If your job is the guy who gets tasked with dealing with this mess, an email / notification reminding employees of a policy is probably the most basic step you take. I guarantee you whoever manages retention for Comcast is doing a whole lot more right now than just writing an email.

In terms of your post, you wrote:

"He is free to say what he wants, but there is a proper way to file a complaint and get it handled. People think they can say whatever and get away with it, sorry it doesn't work that way. You are free to say what you will, but that doesn't mean you get away without any repercussions."

My point is yes, as a customer, you can express your dissatisfaction with a company, or even a specific employee. You can express it to them, their supervisor, your friends, the guy standing next to you, or your social media network. You can name the employee, describe them, state who they work for, where they are located, state what time it happened, etc. No company is going to have an issue with that. Sure, most companies have formal complaint processes, but that is to make life easier for you and the company; you are by no means obligated to use it.

Most importantly, you can complain without any expectation or fear of retribution. That means the chef can't spit in your soup after you criticize your meal, the bus driver can't make you get off before your destination if you criticize his driving, a cop can't arrest you (or beat you up) if you criticize their treatment of someone, a banker can't arbitrarily raise your interest rate, a front desk clerk can't kick you out a hotel for criticizing your check-in experience, and an airline FA/GA can't kick you off a flight for claiming they were rude during boarding.

Customer drunkenness, physical aggression, sexual aggression... those are all different stories. But we've seen nothing whatsoever to allege that, and I'm sure SWA would be the first to dispute the PAX's story if they believe he is making up the part about being told to delete the text.

All public companies want and encourage their customer feedback, good or bad. They genuinely want to improve, even the worst customer service offenders. Anyone that is trying to suppress that is in the wrong. I've watched, both personally and professionally, employees go to great lengths to suppress negative feedback (hanging up on customers, refusing to escalate to a superior, giving fake names, refusing to give any identifying information, etc). It's one of many things customer service executives attempt to combat.
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Old Jul 23, 2014, 3:29 pm
  #100  
 
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a cop can't arrest you (or beat you up) if you criticize their treatment of someone
While it shouldn't this one unfortunately happens all the time.
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Old Jul 23, 2014, 3:30 pm
  #101  
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Reisen gets it, and clearly a subject matter expert on this topic. Retaliation for negative feedback is atrocious behavior.

I've done the exact same thing as this father on SWA with my daughter and was not harassed by the gate agent nor any other flyers. This father has been called ....... and ......... in this thread for what? Asking that he and his 2 young kids board in the A group that he had a boarding pass for? Where is the crime? The GA said no, he thinks it's poor service and has every right to express his views. Sheesh.
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Old Jul 23, 2014, 3:43 pm
  #102  
 
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Originally Posted by rsteinmetz70112
While it shouldn't this one unfortunately happens all the time.
You're unfortunately right. I guess when I wrote "can't", I meant "shouldn't / is not allowed to".

Further, I acknowledge this stuff isn't black and white. You're allowed to criticize a police officer, but you also have to follow his orders. So if he tells you to get back, stand in a certain area, "show me your hands", etc, you have to comply.

FAs & GAs are similar. If the GA is trying to board the plane on time, she doesn't have to stop the boarding process to deal with 10 minutes of your complaints. But it seems the issue here was with the passenger escalating to twitter, not with him disrupting boarding/loading/takeoff.
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Old Jul 23, 2014, 3:44 pm
  #103  
 
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Originally Posted by NLO
Reisen gets it, and clearly a subject matter expert on this topic. Retaliation for negative feedback is atrocious behavior.

I've done the exact same thing as this father on SWA with my daughter and was not harassed by the gate agent nor any other flyers. This father has been called ....... and ......... in this thread for what? Asking that he and his 2 young kids board in the A group that he had a boarding pass for? Where is the crime? The GA said no, he thinks it's poor service and has every right to express his views. Sheesh.
We don't know what Mr. A-List did or didn't do at the gate. We don't know if he asked to board with his kids or simply tried to bluster his way through. His attitude as expressed in interviews and tweets indicates he felt and still feels he had a right to board with his children at his A-List boarding position.

He doesn't.

We will likely never know where things went wrong. Perhaps Mr. A-List is right and the GA was rude in stopping him. If that happened it was right to stop him and wrong to be rude. It seems to me far more likely that Mr. A-List took exception to being told he had to wait and became irate. It's even possible he continued to be irate on the aircraft, and that precipitated his temporary removal.
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Old Jul 23, 2014, 3:49 pm
  #104  
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Originally Posted by NLO
I've done the exact same thing as this father on SWA with my daughter and was not harassed by the gate agent nor any other flyers. This father has been called ....... and ......... in this thread for what? Asking that he and his 2 young kids board in the A group that he had a boarding pass for? Where is the crime? The GA said no, he thinks it's poor service and has every right to express his views. Sheesh.
<hands NLO a flame-retardant suit>

The father committed an egregious crime against all of Flyertalk, including those who have never flown Southwest. He and his daughters likely occupied seats in Row 9, thus forcing another A-Lister to take a seat in Row 10. (Or maybe Row 8...whatever.) This is completely unacceptable and should never be tolerated under any circumstances. It's an offense to all of our collective eliteness.
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Old Jul 23, 2014, 3:56 pm
  #105  
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Cool

Originally Posted by john398
Or we could ask him to join the discussion here at FT
Yes, I can see that going well for him....
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