Southwest - book ticket and cancel last minute to guarantee infant seat?
May 7, 2014, 12:29 pm
#16
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This is explicitly allowed per section 6(b)(ii) of Southwest's Contract of Carriage.
Children 14 days old and younger than two years old. One child 14 days up to two years old on the date of travel may be carried on the lap of an accompanying Passenger 12 years of age or older. If an adjacent unoccupied seat is available, the child may be secured in an FAA-approved child restraint device without charge. However, if the child is traveling without a confirmed reservation and no adjacent unoccupied seats are available, the child restraint device may have to be transported as Checked Baggage.
Children 14 days old and younger than two years old. One child 14 days up to two years old on the date of travel may be carried on the lap of an accompanying Passenger 12 years of age or older. If an adjacent unoccupied seat is available, the child may be secured in an FAA-approved child restraint device without charge. However, if the child is traveling without a confirmed reservation and no adjacent unoccupied seats are available, the child restraint device may have to be transported as Checked Baggage.
I'm still of the opinion that from a safety and comfort perspective, all children should have their own ticketed seat and be secured in a car seat, though.
May 8, 2014, 9:01 am
#17
Join Date: May 2010
Location: DFW
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Why do people, like yourself stress this so much on FT? Yes, airlines can do anything, but the percentages are so small.....you and others make it feel like it's the norm. It's not. It's less than 1 percent IMO. Maybe less. No matter what. It's a small percentage. "Sending them a bill" lets put this in the .00000000000001 percent of all travelers. I clearly don't understand the fear and loathing posts....
May 8, 2014, 8:50 pm
#18
Join Date: Feb 2007
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When our granddaughter was <2 years old, we would always ask if we could carry the car seat on board. Even if there were a few unbooked seats, we were often told no. Contract of carriage aside, the gate agents tend to discourage carry-aboard car seats, unless the flight will have a substantial number of empty seats (I am guessing around 20 or more seats, just based on our experience of around 35 flights or so).
Booking a ticket with the intention of cancelling it to game the system is unethical, in my belief system. Your mileage may vary.
Booking a ticket with the intention of cancelling it to game the system is unethical, in my belief system. Your mileage may vary.
May 9, 2014, 6:43 am
#19
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When our granddaughter was <2 years old, we would always ask if we could carry the car seat on board. Even if there were a few unbooked seats, we were often told no. Contract of carriage aside, the gate agents tend to discourage carry-aboard car seats, unless the flight will have a substantial number of empty seats (I am guessing around 20 or more seats, just based on our experience of around 35 flights or so).
Booking a ticket with the intention of cancelling it to game the system is unethical, in my belief system. Your mileage may vary.
Booking a ticket with the intention of cancelling it to game the system is unethical, in my belief system. Your mileage may vary.
May 11, 2014, 9:29 pm
#20
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: “I work for Southwest, but the views expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Southwest.”
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If you want a seat for your baby the best option is to buy the seat. NOTHING else can guarantee you a seat. As a mom who travels with an infant I can tell you that if the flight is looking full (and loads are full!) the F/A will ask you when you board if the baby is a lap child...
Even IF the Gate Agent allows you to board with the carseat...the Flight Attendant can always have you check the seat onboard if more standbys are cleared or other Passengers make the flight...or a last minute fare is sold.
And, I can tell you, that to cancel and then get a lap child ticket and then be allowed to bring the carrier onboard so that you can use the seat you just cancelled for free you have to have the RIGHT Gate Agents...they will know what you did.
Just my two cents of course.
Even IF the Gate Agent allows you to board with the carseat...the Flight Attendant can always have you check the seat onboard if more standbys are cleared or other Passengers make the flight...or a last minute fare is sold.
And, I can tell you, that to cancel and then get a lap child ticket and then be allowed to bring the carrier onboard so that you can use the seat you just cancelled for free you have to have the RIGHT Gate Agents...they will know what you did.
Just my two cents of course.
Last edited by tiedyeprincess17; May 11, 2014 at 10:07 pm Reason: completed thought
Dec 22, 2014, 9:45 pm
#23
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1
Southwest's Contract of Carriage states a child may be secured in an FAA approved child restraint at no charge if adjacent seats are unoccupied. The Rapid Rewards program allows full refunds for cancellations made for any reason at any time prior to departure. It is clearly not unethical to exercise your rights under these contracts.
Dec 23, 2014, 9:26 am
#24
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Southwest's Contract of Carriage states a child may be secured in an FAA approved child restraint at no charge if adjacent seats are unoccupied. The Rapid Rewards program allows full refunds for cancellations made for any reason at any time prior to departure. It is clearly not unethical to exercise your rights under these contracts.
I do not see anywhere in the contract of carriage that they allow FRAUDULENT bookings.
Yes, they do allow cancellation of bookings, no questions asked.
But, they do not condone making a booking you have no intention of ever using. A booking is an agreement to fly on said airline for an agreed upon price, date, etc. If one has no intention of ever doing so, it is fraud. It may not be fraud in a legal definition, but it is surely UNETHICAL.
People that believe it is okay, and abuse the system are those that contribute to changes in rules.
Dec 24, 2014, 7:42 pm
#25
Join Date: May 2005
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Really?
I do not see anywhere in the contract of carriage that they allow FRAUDULENT bookings.
Yes, they do allow cancellation of bookings, no questions asked.
But, they do not condone making a booking you have no intention of ever using. A booking is an agreement to fly on said airline for an agreed upon price, date, etc. If one has no intention of ever doing so, it is fraud. It may not be fraud in a legal definition, but it is surely UNETHICAL.
People that believe it is okay, and abuse the system are those that contribute to changes in rules.
I do not see anywhere in the contract of carriage that they allow FRAUDULENT bookings.
Yes, they do allow cancellation of bookings, no questions asked.
But, they do not condone making a booking you have no intention of ever using. A booking is an agreement to fly on said airline for an agreed upon price, date, etc. If one has no intention of ever doing so, it is fraud. It may not be fraud in a legal definition, but it is surely UNETHICAL.
People that believe it is okay, and abuse the system are those that contribute to changes in rules.
A booking is an agreement for the airline to reserve (hence having a reservation) a seat on the plane. There's nothing that says I have to agree to fly just because I bought a ticket.
Convention next month. I don't intend to go but I make a reservation and pay for the ticket in case it turns out I need to go. Did I just do something unethical? According to your definition, I did. I think that puts a lot of business travelers in quite the conundrum.
Dec 25, 2014, 11:37 am
#26
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 758
Southwest actually has an infant fare that is fully refundable up to 10 minutes before departure. It is usually priced as the difference between the Wanna Get Away and Anytime Fares. You need to call reservations to have them do it. It is not available online. They can then link it to an existing PNR. The other option is to do a Rapid Rewards ticket. The beauty of either of these options is if there are seats available, you can cancel the ticket while still using the car seat. We have done it a few times at both large and small stations and have never had an issue bringing the car seat on after cancelling the ticket.
Dec 27, 2014, 9:05 pm
#27
Used to be 'Travelergcp'
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Due to the reusability of ticketless travel funds, Southwest's oversale rate is high and volatile. You'd have to book a lot of extra tickets to have any meaningful chance at pulling this off, and it would piss them off.
Dec 28, 2014, 7:04 am
#28
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It's not that black and white as you imply.
A booking is an agreement for the airline to reserve (hence having a reservation) a seat on the plane. There's nothing that says I have to agree to fly just because I bought a ticket.
Convention next month. I don't intend to go but I make a reservation and pay for the ticket in case it turns out I need to go. Did I just do something unethical? According to your definition, I did. I think that puts a lot of business travelers in quite the conundrum.
A booking is an agreement for the airline to reserve (hence having a reservation) a seat on the plane. There's nothing that says I have to agree to fly just because I bought a ticket.
Convention next month. I don't intend to go but I make a reservation and pay for the ticket in case it turns out I need to go. Did I just do something unethical? According to your definition, I did. I think that puts a lot of business travelers in quite the conundrum.
But, in the case of the convention ticket... you are booking it because you think you MIGHT go. Southwest makes that easy to do.
The earlier post is much different. He suggests booking a ticket with the knowledge he will NEVER use it. (vs your maybe). And, he books it with the intention of having an open seat on that flight. Very different.
Dec 28, 2014, 11:59 am
#29
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Southwest's website says this, which I still do not completely understand:
"You may not use Southwest's sites to make any speculative, fraudulent, or false reservation or any reservation in anticipation of demand."
1. What exactly is a "speculative" reservation? If I cancel a reservation, does that mean it was speculative at the time I made it 3 months prior? Can this be looked at retrospectively?
2. What exactly does "anticipation of demand" mean?
3. What for that matter does "demand" mean in this sentence? When I first want the reservation? When I book it? When I decide 100% to take the flight? When I get on the plane?
And what if I call in a reservation or make it at the airport in person? I am not "us[ing] Southwest's sites" in that case.
Totally murky stuff, presumably written that way on purpose.
Of course, by posting that quote above, I have already fallen afoul of WN:
"You may not copy, display, distribute, download, license, modify, publish, re-post, reproduce, reuse, sell, transmit, use to create a derivative work, or otherwise use the content of this site for public or commercial purposes without our express written permission. "
"You may not use Southwest's sites to make any speculative, fraudulent, or false reservation or any reservation in anticipation of demand."
1. What exactly is a "speculative" reservation? If I cancel a reservation, does that mean it was speculative at the time I made it 3 months prior? Can this be looked at retrospectively?
2. What exactly does "anticipation of demand" mean?
3. What for that matter does "demand" mean in this sentence? When I first want the reservation? When I book it? When I decide 100% to take the flight? When I get on the plane?
And what if I call in a reservation or make it at the airport in person? I am not "us[ing] Southwest's sites" in that case.
Totally murky stuff, presumably written that way on purpose.
Of course, by posting that quote above, I have already fallen afoul of WN:
"You may not copy, display, distribute, download, license, modify, publish, re-post, reproduce, reuse, sell, transmit, use to create a derivative work, or otherwise use the content of this site for public or commercial purposes without our express written permission. "
Last edited by toomanybooks; Dec 28, 2014 at 12:11 pm