Wise-Broccoli8301

^

Jeez. This is exactly why Southwest is the bus of the skies. People need to learn to follow instructions, but what separates the Southwest crowd from a AA/DL/UA crowd is that Southwest has too many average Joe's and Jane's who causally fly. The 2 free bags rule makes it easier to fight for overhead space, but man, when people stack bags incorrectly, its almost ALWAYS Southwest where I see sideways rollaboards. The chance that people get nasty is pretty high on Southwest too as people seem to not know any better how the system works.

I'm not a fan of the caste system for boarding for the Big 3 domestic carriers, but in some ways doing so puts people in their place so they're less likely to cause trouble.

ursine1

Unless they actually witnessed the behavior first hand, I'd suspect they would do no such thing.

In fact, I'd suggest that if someone did as you suggest, depending on their temperament, they would be the ones more likely risking removal from the plane.

InkUnderNails

One of the worst altercations of shouting and name calling I have seen in a WN line was over a group of line breakers, 7 in all, getting in the space between A16 and the last of a light BS load. There were threats of a fight and and it was quite heated.

I am glad it called down as the breaker leader was much younger and more athletic and with grandma and grandpa helping would have taken me quite quickly.

texashoser

Disagree. An airline can remove any passenger they think has or will cause a problem. Now, is it a guarantee they would do it in this case? Of course not.

You're missing the larger point, though. Calling them station manager and operations agent to a) tell them what happened and b) have them confront the two losers does two things. First, it gives greater weight to the situation to show that operations agent how badly or lazily they followed company policy which led to retaliatory actions by fellow passengers. Just maybe that ops agent won't do that again. Secondly, even if not removed from the flight, having the station manager and ops agent talk to those passengers, just maybe they'll think twice about pulling that .... again.

Regardless of the outcome, it would have been the right and proper thing to do.

nsx

Not especially. This pair obviously knew the system well. They knew that their maneuver was against the rules, they knew to hide their numbers, and they fully expected the Ops Agent to allow them to board out of sequence regardless. I'd bet they had run this scam many times before with a high rate of success.

If Ops Agents enforced boarding order 100% of the time these scammers would stop trying after the first couple of flights. Now it will take much longer to train them to stop trying.

Ops Agents have a classic free rider problem: The lazy ones create extra work for the diligent ones.

From now on I will give one Kick Tail voucher to every Ops Agent who turns aside a line position cheat. In an extreme case I will write a commendation letter.

NextTrip

I like this idea and will do the same.

ursine1

Of course an airline can remove any passenger they think is a problem. You're missing my point (the 2nd part of my statement). The airline gets to decide who the problem is, and sometimes they're wrong.

I've witnessed first-hand the wrong person being removed from the plane during an altercation. When it's up to the crew/staff/police to determine who is the problem, mistakes can be -- and are -- made.

If, as often happens, the complaining party is deemed the problem, they will be removed. It happens. I've witnessed it. It's completely unfair, but without seeing the actual events that triggered the incident, it's very possible that the person "causing all the fuss" will be the one removed.

It even makes sense, in a way. To the agents, what is the problem? The person in front of them, holding up the flight and causing the issue. Regardless of whether that person's complaint is legitimate. The crew do not have much info to go on, they witnessed nothing themselves. Pull her off and the plane can leave. Problem "solved."

Should she have done what you said, it would have had the effect of delaying the flight and inconveniencing the entire plane load of passengers, at a minimum, something the crew and the pilot aren't particularly in favor of. If she stressed that the GA in-effect started the whole thing by letting them on early, it becomes a complaint against the airline, something they also don't like. If the losers sat in their seats quietly and/or were apologetic to the crew, I could easily see this escalating to the point of her removal. It would take a very tactful approach on her part to try avoid this happening, and even so there's no guarantee they would not still decide that she's the issue, or that it's just easiest to pull her off and send the plane out. Sort things out with her later.

If she was pulled off, and later took to social media to complain about the experience, there would no doubt be a thread here in which people stuck up for the airline and called her a troublemaker. Said things like "How do we even know that the guys jumped the line? I'm sure the GA would have stopped them if they tried." "There must be more to the story." "It was probably a flirtation gone bad."

I absolutely agree that, in a perfect world, what you suggest is what should have been done, for all the reasons you mention. Absolutely.

It bother's me that the whole thing could have been prevented by the GA doing their job correctly, and that there is/will be likely no repercussions to that person for failing to do so.

But it's not a perfect world. I continue to assert that doing what you suggested -- the "right and proper thing to do" -- would have been risky, and possibly have led to her not flying. If it were me, I would have handled it pretty much the same way she did.

I actually think she handled things very well.

I'd suggest that a strongly worded letter about the incident should be sent, for what it's worth (which, admittedly, isn't much).

ursine1

^^^^^

rsteinmetz70112

This afternoon I witnessed anot her for of line breaking. I was A17, the were I think 2 BS passengers A17 quit understandably lined up in the middle of the vacant BS space, leaving me first of the in line. The G A advised everyone the get in line in order and to ask other passengers their number.

Several people asked me my number and I told them, flashing my home printed Boarding Pass with a big A17 on it. They happy told me theirs and lined up accordingly. I noticed a couple standing immediately to my left with folded boarding passes. I asked what their number was and the answer was "we're A26". I'm pretty sure at least one of them was not A27 and they intended to blend into the A15-30 group as early as they could.

snoopoz

The electronic boarding passes definitely aid in line-cutting. There's just no way to see it now.

I'm especially antsy about this because I have to do MDW-LAX tomorrow and so the earliest possible boarding is essential!

toomanybooks

Your Companion couldn't step in and help?

AMflier

I realize that this may be asking too much of WN's IT department, but couldn't they program the scanners to emit a negative sound and reject the BP if it is more than, say 10 positions out of order?

The GA would be able to override for pre-boards, but in the case of line cuts they can just say, "Sorry, the machine won't let you on if you are out of order."

mile ho

I would say even fewer. P's me off when someone cuts 5 spaces in front.

I have seen some be just mistaken. But it doesn't take any genius to get in line according to their number. Some folks just won't do right.

But then again we have some who claim a medical disability who board first and then are 'healed' on the flight. Jerks.

texashoser

It seems like the most important thing to you is not delaying flight, regardless of the circumstances. And you're drawing out what theoretically could have happened and painting it into the worst case scenario and presenting it as why passengers shouldn't complain.

Let me be clear, this isn't about line cutting - it's about making lewd gestures to fellow passengers. Are you saying that *shouldn't* be reported to airline staff?

Unfortunately, the Ops agent was no longer going to be an effective airline representative to report the issue to because they weren't effective in the first place. And since the flight hadn't taken off yet and the issue didn't happen on board, getting the flight attendants involved isn't going to do much good. At that point, you need to call for the station manager or some other supervisor - even if it means, God forbid, that the flight is delayed for a few minutes.

And while I don't agree with what you seem to think would probably have happened to the OP and person making the complaint, I do agree with you that how she handled herself when presenting what happened would have dictated the final outcome and the length of any delay.

Had she been calm and rational in her complaint, there is no way she would have been removed and delays would have been minimal, if non-existent. Yes, the offending passengers could have denied everything and been sweet as pie, but at least there is non-deniable proof they cut in line. Having the station manager or a customer service/ops/gate agent supervisor talk to them and telling them that line-cutting and lewd gestures will get them thrown off of this or future flights is about the only thing that's going to get asshats like those folks to think about their behavior next time. Yes, I agree that if the OP didn't get the result she wanted at that point, started to make demands, and became irrational, she would have been removed. But that's only one possible remote outcome, not at all the outcome you think might have happened.

And having the station manager/supervisor come down because the Ops agent lost control of the situation is certain going to make that person more aware of how they can do their job better.

nsx

Fixed that for you.