Nose gear collapse on landing at LGA

Old Jul 23, 13, 12:00 pm
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Originally Posted by qwertyasdfghzxcvbn View Post
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why you need to turn off your electronic devices.
^
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Old Jul 23, 13, 12:25 pm
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Funny (fake) image going around today, note the pilot's name on a (fake) Korean news broadcast...

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Old Jul 23, 13, 3:30 pm
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Originally Posted by PcolaPaul View Post
Geesh, idiot flight attendant. You can hear her say something like "Everyone sit down, we are not there yet!"
The FAs are trained to wait for the flight deck to give the evacuate command, unless there is imminent danger (ie the plane is on fire). Seeing how the airframe is intact, nothing is flaming and there was no evacuate command, it's a pretty reasonable thing to say.

You can hear a second announcement from someone (pilot?) that says "Please remain seated." The ATC tape I heard had the fire department telling the pilots to wait to evacuate until they sprayed the nose down.
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Old Jul 24, 13, 12:58 pm
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Did it land nose first.

This article in NYC Aviation speculates the aircraft landed nose gear first causing the collapse and driving the nose gear strut up and into the E&E bay. Still conjecture but this matches my own theory and is supported by the videos that show a low deck angle. Time will tell.

Since the aircraft was maybe heavy since it was full, the pilot wanted to avoid the possibility of a Burbank over-run and get on the ground quickly. Again speculation.
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Old Jul 24, 13, 2:19 pm
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Originally Posted by kerflumexed View Post
This article in NYC Aviation speculates the aircraft landed nose gear first causing the collapse and driving the nose gear strut up and into the E&E bay. Still conjecture but this matches my own theory and is supported by the videos that show a low deck angle. Time will tell.

Since the aircraft was maybe heavy since it was full, the pilot wanted to avoid the possibility of a Burbank over-run and get on the ground quickly. Again speculation.
If those sources are correct, that's no bueno for the pilots.

However, not really sure the PF (pilot flying) was worried about an overrun. Runway 4 is 7,000 feet long which is plenty of room for a 737. Hell, I used to watch WN 737's land on runway 17 at the old Austin Mueller airport. That runway was only 5,000 feet long.
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Old Jul 24, 13, 2:32 pm
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Originally Posted by texashoser View Post
If those sources are correct, that's no bueno for the pilots.

However, not really sure the PF (pilot flying) was worried about an overrun. Runway 4 is 7,000 feet long which is plenty of room for a 737. Hell, I used to watch WN 737's land on runway 17 at the old Austin Mueller airport. That runway was only 5,000 feet long.
Or Key West at 4,800' where I flew WN into a few months ago, a fully packed Devolve plane with water on both ends. I loved it being a pilot who flew a Cessna into there a few years ago but my daughter was nervous at the full power up before take off (with the brakes on).
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Old Jul 24, 13, 2:38 pm
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Originally Posted by joshua362 View Post
Or Key West at 4,800' where I flew WN into a few months ago, a fully packed Devolve plane with water on both ends. I loved it being a pilot who flew a Cessna into there a few years ago but my daughter was nervous at the full power up before take off (with the brakes on).
Years and years ago, I flew (piloted) a Bonanza into Key West. Memories!
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Old Jul 24, 13, 9:00 pm
  #68  
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Originally Posted by RatherBeOnATrain View Post
Maybe this week they'll report that the landing gear inspector is named Lucinda Bolts?
We now know the name of the pilots:

Doug Myfeetin
Screech Enhault

Signed,
KTVU

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Old Jul 25, 13, 11:22 am
  #69  
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Picture from NTSB of landing gear where it ain't supposed to be, in the electronics bay:

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2...incident.html/
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Old Jul 25, 13, 3:30 pm
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Originally Posted by toomanybooks View Post
Picture from NTSB of landing gear where it ain't supposed to be, in the electronics bay:

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2...incident.html/
Time to ground all the 737-700's. Shouldn't affect schedules a bit.
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Old Jul 25, 13, 4:56 pm
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NTSB released some information on twitter just now. No link to a formal press release that I can see but confirming pitch down and nose gear touching down first. Read from the bottom up.

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Old Jul 25, 13, 6:30 pm
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From cnn.com:

Washington (CNN) -- The Southwest Airlines jet that crash landed at New York's LaGuardia airport on Monday met the runway with its nose gear first, according to federal accident investigators.
The unusual landing, in which investigators said the plane's nose pitched down seconds before touchdown, is the surest clue yet as to why the Boeing 737s front landing gear collapsed and the plane skidded down the runway.
The National Transportation Safety Board said on Thursday that video and other sources provide evidence that the nose gear contacted the tarmac before the main wheels.
Under a normal landing in a big jet, the main landing gear under each wing would touch the runway first and simultaneously -- absorbing the main stress of landing -- and the nose gear then lowered gradually as the plane decelerates down the runway.
The safety board did not speculate as to why the plane landed the way it did. That model jet is expected to cross the runway threshold at about 140 knots or 161 mph, according to Boeing figures.
Investigators said the pilot evidently adjusted the wing flaps less than a minute before landing, suggesting to veteran pilots who spoke with CNN that the plane may not have been on a stabilized approach as it neared the runway.
Landing the way it did "would potentially have overstressed the nose gear to the point where it would have failed," said Capt. Mark Weiss, a former 737 pilot and civil aviation leader at The Spectrum Group in Washington.
The NTSB said the plane's wing flaps were set from 30 to 40 degrees about 56 seconds prior to touchdown.
"What this brings into question is whether they were on a stabilized approach to make a normal landing," Weiss said.
The safety board, coincidentally, is looking at whether Asiana Flight 124, which crashed-landed in San Francisco earlier this month, was also on a stabilized approach.
Details released late Thursday about the New York accident show the plane changing its pitch suddenly in the final seconds of flight -- and in a direction opposite than desired.
When the plane was just 32 feet in altitude, four seconds before landing, the plane was pitched 2 degrees nose up. At touchdown, the plane was pitched approximately 3 degrees nose down, the safety board said.
Video shows the plane careening down the runway, the nose to the pavement, sending up showers of sparks. After touchdown, the aircraft came to a stop within approximately 19 seconds, the NTSB reported.
Word that the landing was unusual could remove suspicion of a mechanical failure. Such a conclusion could have major implications for commercial aviation worldwide, given the 737's status as the most widely used commercial jet.
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Old Jul 25, 13, 6:31 pm
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Originally Posted by texashoser View Post
If those sources are correct, that's no bueno for the pilots.
If you watch the passenger video from inside the cabin it sure looks like the nose is pitched down at touchdown.
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Old Jul 25, 13, 6:59 pm
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Originally Posted by Dunbar View Post
If you watch the passenger video from inside the cabin it sure looks like the nose is pitched down at touchdown.
Not to me.

Looks like routine approach angle with pax ignoring PED rules.
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Old Jul 25, 13, 7:42 pm
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Originally Posted by Dunbar View Post
If you watch the passenger video from inside the cabin it sure looks like the nose is pitched down at touchdown.
I think so, it is slight, but the wing does look pitch down, certainly not pitched up as in a flare for landing.

There have to be other factors at play here that may have distracted the pilots, "protect the nose wheel" is flight school 101 taught...
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