Never seen this before: saving an entire exit row
Dec 31, 2012, 2:54 pm
#31
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Blue Ridge, GA
Posts: 5,509
I had a trip to LAS this past week. WN down, AS back.
Literally night and day. On WN, multiple people saving seats. Glaring and staring. Grumbling and mumbling. People putting their carryons over the savers so that when the savees showed up, there was no place to put their bags, so they go down the aisle looking for space, further clogging things up.
Contrast with AS. People orderly, even polite. People promptly got in their seats and we were ready for departure.
I have totally stopped flying the high-fare carrier that is WN unless absolutely necessary. I do not know why any FTer with a choice would fly them.
Literally night and day. On WN, multiple people saving seats. Glaring and staring. Grumbling and mumbling. People putting their carryons over the savers so that when the savees showed up, there was no place to put their bags, so they go down the aisle looking for space, further clogging things up.
Contrast with AS. People orderly, even polite. People promptly got in their seats and we were ready for departure.
I have totally stopped flying the high-fare carrier that is WN unless absolutely necessary. I do not know why any FTer with a choice would fly them.
Jan 1, 2013, 11:28 am
#33
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Texas
Programs: Frequent Flyer
Posts: 435
I would have spoken with the FA who should have said that you are more than welcome to sit in the exit row as you met the requirements and are there before the boarding family. I would have asked to speak to a customer service rep after the flight to see how WN can improve on the training of the FA's.
I agree that it is greedy to try and save OW seats and I would happily enforce a policy about the OW should SW implement one. Typically I will comment in a joking manner - "good luck saving these seats, they are prime real estate. You'll have better luck with a row further back." PAX's have actually moved back when I mention it this way.
I also will say "sit anywhere you like" if asked. If PAX's become angry about a seat - they are then walking the fine line of it no longer being about a seat - but an anger issue which could interfere with their travel plans.
Jan 1, 2013, 3:54 pm
#34
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: STL
Programs: Hhonors Diamond, Southwest A-list Preferred, Delta Million Miler
Posts: 362
I'll speak to this post since it implies the FA was not performing his/her duties satisfactorily. There is no policy regarding seat saving. We are not trained or told to monitor seat saving. There is no "improved training" for the FA since seat saving is not part of our training.
I agree that it is greedy to try and save OW seats and I would happily enforce a policy about the OW should SW implement one. Typically I will comment in a joking manner - "good luck saving these seats, they are prime real estate. You'll have better luck with a row further back." PAX's have actually moved back when I mention it this way.
I also will say "sit anywhere you like" if asked. If PAX's become angry about a seat - they are then walking the fine line of it no longer being about a seat - but an anger issue which could interfere with their travel plans.
I agree that it is greedy to try and save OW seats and I would happily enforce a policy about the OW should SW implement one. Typically I will comment in a joking manner - "good luck saving these seats, they are prime real estate. You'll have better luck with a row further back." PAX's have actually moved back when I mention it this way.
I also will say "sit anywhere you like" if asked. If PAX's become angry about a seat - they are then walking the fine line of it no longer being about a seat - but an anger issue which could interfere with their travel plans.
Again, this is not the FA's fault as you are caught in the middle. I actually feel bad for the FA's when they have to get involved. Many are clearly uncomfortable doing so. that said, when a seat saver tries to hold an exit row seat, I usually turn to the nearby FA and simply ask...$Southwest has an open seat policy, right?" They've always answer "yes" and then I take the seat. The seat-saver usually grumbles a little bit, or simply moves which is usually the case.
Getting back to the comment I made about earning or paying for what I deem a premium seat on WN, thru-Pax with no status who grab exit rows on layovers are also frustrating, because again I earned or paid for an early boarding privilege, but they may not have. Seems unfair that they get the exit row and we don't. Anyway, I wish WN could figure this all out. If they want to charge us for early boarding, offer BS fares, or award A-List status to FF, then they owe it to us to provide a fair system to enjoy theses earned privileges.
Jan 1, 2013, 4:29 pm
#35
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Blue Ridge, GA
Posts: 5,509
Articulating a "no seat saving" policy would be acknowleging customers find open seating has liabilities & drawbacks. Industrial-size can of worms. New fees might require conditional asterisks.
Saying and doing nada is smart business.
Saying and doing nada is smart business.
Jan 1, 2013, 7:06 pm
#36
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Chicagoland, IL, USA
Programs: WN CP, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 14,185
5 years ago you didn't hear this constant grumbling about seat-saving on WN. Now that they are selling EBCI and (soon) at-the-gate BS line position and A-List and all this, people think they should actually get something for their money/effort. Hard to fathom, eh?
WN already suffers from an image such that many frequent flyers will not consider them under any circumstances. Alienating folks seems like a bad idea to me.
Grumbling customers are not a good thing to have; I think WN is going to have to come up with a real policy, not just a "we have no policy" policy.
Let's keep it simple: "You may save a middle seat behind the exit row."
Last edited by toomanybooks; Jan 1, 2013 at 8:08 pm
Jan 1, 2013, 8:14 pm
#37
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Nashville, TN
Programs: WN Nothing and spending the half million points from too many flights, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 8,043
I have always been a fan of open seating. I get to the airport early, I am A+, and now I preboard. It works to my advantage. I am close to changing. Very close.
WN has created three tiers of tickets, WGA, AT and BS. One of those is specifically promoted as getting a better place in line.
They sell EBCI to get a better place in line.
One of the advantages of working to get A+ and A list is to get a better place in line.
And now they are going to sell better places in line at the gate.
It all goes to increase the value of anti social behavior of line breaking and seat saving. This in turn devalues the earned or paid status. And, WN is complicit by the lack of defined policies and the refusal by some OA's to enforce line order.
Enough!
It can all be fixed by assigned seating. Ugh! I can't believe I said that.
WGA fares get no choice of exit rows or bulkhead or first 10 rows or so unless they pay EBCI which opens up more seats for selection. BS gets any seat still available. The best seats are held out until T36 for A-list, the time the A-List assignments would have been made. Thrus can not move. Want to sit together, pay extra for seats together. Gate upgrades would be available for purchase.
It would be just like everyone else. Just borrow their software and change the logos. You want to be a business airline? Act like one. Stop selling line position and sell the darn seat. That is the reason the line position is important. Skip the silly "were are different" mantra because you really are not anymore. Sell the darn seat.
Heck, go all the way. Set aside four rows in front as four or five across premium space and make them first come for BS. If not full at boarding, AT then A+ gets to upgrade. Still not full A-list. Still not full, sell the darned things. I would be willing to wager that the increased sales of BS and AT alone would return much of the lost revenue. And when people learn they can not cheat their way to the seating they want, WN get to skim a few bucks from them, as well.
It is not cattle car boarding and has not been for a while. It is like general admission at a popular concert. The lines to the door are orderly. When they open it is everyone for himself and those seats that can be commandeered for late arrivals. The more jackets that one has to spread out the better.
WN has created three tiers of tickets, WGA, AT and BS. One of those is specifically promoted as getting a better place in line.
They sell EBCI to get a better place in line.
One of the advantages of working to get A+ and A list is to get a better place in line.
And now they are going to sell better places in line at the gate.
It all goes to increase the value of anti social behavior of line breaking and seat saving. This in turn devalues the earned or paid status. And, WN is complicit by the lack of defined policies and the refusal by some OA's to enforce line order.
Enough!
It can all be fixed by assigned seating. Ugh! I can't believe I said that.
WGA fares get no choice of exit rows or bulkhead or first 10 rows or so unless they pay EBCI which opens up more seats for selection. BS gets any seat still available. The best seats are held out until T36 for A-list, the time the A-List assignments would have been made. Thrus can not move. Want to sit together, pay extra for seats together. Gate upgrades would be available for purchase.
It would be just like everyone else. Just borrow their software and change the logos. You want to be a business airline? Act like one. Stop selling line position and sell the darn seat. That is the reason the line position is important. Skip the silly "were are different" mantra because you really are not anymore. Sell the darn seat.
Heck, go all the way. Set aside four rows in front as four or five across premium space and make them first come for BS. If not full at boarding, AT then A+ gets to upgrade. Still not full A-list. Still not full, sell the darned things. I would be willing to wager that the increased sales of BS and AT alone would return much of the lost revenue. And when people learn they can not cheat their way to the seating they want, WN get to skim a few bucks from them, as well.
It is not cattle car boarding and has not been for a while. It is like general admission at a popular concert. The lines to the door are orderly. When they open it is everyone for himself and those seats that can be commandeered for late arrivals. The more jackets that one has to spread out the better.
Jan 1, 2013, 8:22 pm
#38
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Blue Ridge, GA
Posts: 5,509
Open seating co-existing with myriad fee tiers, pre-boards, skilled seat savers and thru passengers is not something an airline's FA's should have to midwife. No one reasonably expects them to be enforcers of EBCI, BS and A-list privileges.
Seat saving threatens on-time performance along with egos. If gate agents won't expressly discourage it, I see little chance recent annoyances won't turn into a bigger issue.
Seat saving threatens on-time performance along with egos. If gate agents won't expressly discourage it, I see little chance recent annoyances won't turn into a bigger issue.
Jan 1, 2013, 9:14 pm
#39
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Texas
Programs: Frequent Flyer
Posts: 435
My opinion and not the views of SW Airlines or based on any "inside info".
Mar 25, 2014, 9:45 am
#40
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: The OC
Programs: Marriott Gold Elite, Southwest A List
Posts: 29
In a variation, often times the window and aisle on exit row are occupied by the time I board which is normally A16/17. If I have confirmed the load is 137, I will actually sit in the middle seat since the extra leg room is more important than an aisle or window. Strange looks, but I just tell everybody somebody is going to sit here and it's going to be me.
Back to OP, I also have found when that seat savings happen and the foil their plan, they tend to move their seats when they can't force the issue.
Back to OP, I also have found when that seat savings happen and the foil their plan, they tend to move their seats when they can't force the issue.
Mar 25, 2014, 10:21 am
#43
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,263
Mar 25, 2014, 11:33 am
#44
Suspended
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Alki. Seattle, WA
Programs: WN~A List Pref, CP, Hyatt-Diamond, Hilton Diamond, ANT~a Dave Matthews Addiction thing
Posts: 723
