New Fees Coming on WN: Sale of BP slots at gate begins 12/20/2012
Dec 17, 12, 12:11 am
#47
Join Date: Oct 2010
Programs: My opinions are my own and not that of my employer(s)
Posts: 1,411
Actually, the CofC would change at some point and any bookings after that point would be subject to it's conditions. I assume IT can deal with booking date and fare rules. FL has changed fees a couple of times.
Dec 17, 12, 4:26 am
#48
Join Date: Nov 2010
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Posts: 1,166
I quite often will upgrade my company-provided or client-provided AT fare at the gate, at my own expense, to a BS fare, so offering unused BS fares at the gate is not new. On most of my routes, the cost is $16, but YMMV.
Dec 17, 12, 5:01 am
#49
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Nashville, TN
Programs: WN Nothing and spending the half million points from too many flights, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 8,044
Where I see this falling apart is if a non-EBCI buys a BS position and saves two rows of seats for the rest of the family bypassing all of the A's, A+ and EBCI in the process.
A more reasonable, but totally unlikely, solution is that A+ gets first shot at automatic upgrades (then A), just like the legacies have a FC upgrade list list. When the BS positions are full, there will now be a few open A positions that can be sold. EBCI should get first choice then everyone else. It is totally unworkable logistically, but the fair way to do it.
It would be easier if WN would just board by status. Once the BS boards, all A+ could board in order even if they were a late purchase or change that got a C BP. Then board the A's in order, continuing by group until everyone is on the plane. Those that bought the upgrade would be reassigned to their temporary new group.
Heck, when I am preboarding with an A-18, they could even sell my position.
Dec 17, 12, 5:09 am
#50
Moderator: Southwest Airlines, Capital One
Join Date: Sep 1999
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This sounds very much like the Latecomer Check-in we discussed here in early 2010: It's a second chance for people who for whatever reason ended up with a C boarding pass.
Dec 17, 12, 8:04 am
#51
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Westchester Co, NY or Rio Grande Valley, TX or ???
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Dec 17, 12, 8:08 am
#52
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: BOS
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Posts: 3,966
I Bet You $150 No Change to the Unofficial Flat Tire Rule
Don't worry about the flat tire rule! This has nothing to do with that. As I understand it, WN's flat tire rule is an unofficial courtesy extended at the airport. Most all airlines offer this, regardless of what any sort of paper or contract says.
No airline wants to come right out and publish the unofficial flat tire rule on its web site, because it would encourage droves of people to figure out that they can show up late for a flight and get on the next one.
Most (95%) of flyers are very nervous about the flying experience, most "normal people" are completely outside their element and in a discomfort zone at the airport. Most people fear missing their flight, and have no idea what an airline would do if they missed their flight. By not publishing the unofficial flat tire rule, you encourage the consumer behavior of arriving on time and figuring bad things will happen if you miss your flight.
If an ordinary consumer misses their flight and gets reaccommodated on the next flight its "the nice gate agent," not the flat tire rule. They got lucky, they smiled, they flirted, they cried, they did whatever, they charmed, there baby cried, they told them they had to go to a funeral the day after their wedding, whatever.
Also as far as this re-use fee, it will quite likely make the adjustment on the ticket in an overnight batch IT process, well after the flat tire rule would come in to play.
For example, in theory, on JetBlue if you miss your flight, you forfit any and all remaining value on the ticket. In reality, the airport generally accommodates pax under what we might call an unofficial flat tire rule. JetBlue's Sabre implimentation does not void out the funds until at least after midnight on the original travel date.
They can't instantly muck up (void or change) ticket coupons because they would cause issues with IRROPS if they literally did it the second the gate agent closed out the flight.
Again, JetBlue has no official externally published flat tire rule, but the airport uses one at its discretion. The call center, like any other airline, more closely folllows written procedures & contracts to the letter. You might get 4 different answers from 3 different agents at the airport about JetBlue's double secret unofficial flat tire rule. Or Southwest's for that matter.
Also with any airline an agent has the final discretion and the power if you will to do anything with you regardless of the rules. It is just what you individually can or cannot negotiate with the agent, or maybe the next agent. What you can or cannot negotiate is a lot more important than some contract that no "normal" customer reads.
No airline wants to come right out and publish the unofficial flat tire rule on its web site, because it would encourage droves of people to figure out that they can show up late for a flight and get on the next one.
Most (95%) of flyers are very nervous about the flying experience, most "normal people" are completely outside their element and in a discomfort zone at the airport. Most people fear missing their flight, and have no idea what an airline would do if they missed their flight. By not publishing the unofficial flat tire rule, you encourage the consumer behavior of arriving on time and figuring bad things will happen if you miss your flight.
If an ordinary consumer misses their flight and gets reaccommodated on the next flight its "the nice gate agent," not the flat tire rule. They got lucky, they smiled, they flirted, they cried, they did whatever, they charmed, there baby cried, they told them they had to go to a funeral the day after their wedding, whatever.
Also as far as this re-use fee, it will quite likely make the adjustment on the ticket in an overnight batch IT process, well after the flat tire rule would come in to play.
For example, in theory, on JetBlue if you miss your flight, you forfit any and all remaining value on the ticket. In reality, the airport generally accommodates pax under what we might call an unofficial flat tire rule. JetBlue's Sabre implimentation does not void out the funds until at least after midnight on the original travel date.
They can't instantly muck up (void or change) ticket coupons because they would cause issues with IRROPS if they literally did it the second the gate agent closed out the flight.
Again, JetBlue has no official externally published flat tire rule, but the airport uses one at its discretion. The call center, like any other airline, more closely folllows written procedures & contracts to the letter. You might get 4 different answers from 3 different agents at the airport about JetBlue's double secret unofficial flat tire rule. Or Southwest's for that matter.
Also with any airline an agent has the final discretion and the power if you will to do anything with you regardless of the rules. It is just what you individually can or cannot negotiate with the agent, or maybe the next agent. What you can or cannot negotiate is a lot more important than some contract that no "normal" customer reads.
Dec 17, 12, 11:11 am
#53
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 1,401
Per this blog, http://boardingarea.com/blogs/dealsw...-airtran-fees/, EBCI will be going to $12.50.
Dec 17, 12, 11:19 am
#54
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,286
Some reports are saying the overweight bag fee will double to $100, based on Gary Kelly's statement during the webcast... but the Southwest website says it increases to $75.
Is anyone official from Southwest reading this who can clarify?
Is anyone official from Southwest reading this who can clarify?
Dec 17, 12, 12:13 pm
#55
Join Date: Sep 2011
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Per this blog, http://boardingarea.com/blogs/dealsw...-airtran-fees/, EBCI will be going to $12.50.
Also, the article mentions an increase in EBCI fees to $12.50. (Edited to add specifics mentioned in this BusinessWeek article)
Dec 17, 12, 12:16 pm
#56
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: MCI
Programs: AA Gold 1MM, AS MVP, UA Silver, WN A-List, Marriott LT Titanium, HH Diamond
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Gary Kelly's closing remarks:
"We are America's favorite airline. A component of that of course and an important one is our low fares and our low costs. But we walk that fine line of having an inexpensive price but also coupled with great service. And we don't want to lose that. So we envision that in the future we can pursue the opportunity to be North America's favorite airline.
"We are America's favorite airline. A component of that of course and an important one is our low fares and our low costs. But we walk that fine line of having an inexpensive price but also coupled with great service. And we don't want to lose that. So we envision that in the future we can pursue the opportunity to be North America's favorite airline.
I wonder if that's a general reference to AirTran flying to some nearby international destinations...or a preview of real Southwest expansion plans to Canada?
Forget about whatever metric he's using for "favorite": the intent to become the favorite among Canadians, Mexicans, or both is especially interesting to me.
Dec 17, 12, 12:37 pm
#57
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: ALABAMA
Programs: STARWOOD PLAT, LT GOLD,WN A-LIST PREFERRED, NATIONAL EXECUTIVE
Posts: 267
I hope so because I occasionally have to pay the fee and $100 seems like a large increase. What they need to do is enforce the size limit on carry ons.
Dec 17, 12, 12:39 pm
#58
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: ORD/MDW
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Interesting. We are America's favorite airline. We want to be North America's favorite airline.
I wonder if that's a general reference to AirTran flying to some nearby international destinations...or a preview of real Southwest expansion plans to Canada?
Forget about whatever metric he's using for "favorite": the intent to become the favorite among Canadians, Mexicans, or both is especially interesting to me.
I wonder if that's a general reference to AirTran flying to some nearby international destinations...or a preview of real Southwest expansion plans to Canada?
Forget about whatever metric he's using for "favorite": the intent to become the favorite among Canadians, Mexicans, or both is especially interesting to me.
Dec 17, 12, 6:04 pm
#59
Join Date: Nov 2010
Programs: WN peon (was A+), IHG Plat Hilton HHonors Gold DL SkyPesos PM (still a peon) US Chmn, Hawaiian Haole
Posts: 1,166
Dec 19, 12, 7:05 am
#60
Moderator: Southwest Airlines, Capital One
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
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Hat tip to gogreyhound
I'd like to point out that gogreyhound alerted us to the possibility of new fees 8 weeks ago:
A no-show fee is far less onerous than a change fee, and selling unused BS slots at the gate is not assigned seating, but you have to wonder where the trend will stop.
Other observations from the October thread:
GK excerpts from the Q3 conference call on Oct. 18:
--"...I did want to admit what I think is the obvious, which is we're off (financial) plan. We do have some concerns about the economy and higher fuel prices, and I don't we want to just continue on with business as usual. So we will be looking for way to augment our current strategies which I'm very enthused about already...." (Don't you feel the enthusiasm?)
--When asked if that could mean "reconsidering" Bags Fly Free: "Well, for now, of course not. I don't think we would ever say no to anything whether it's assigned seats or charging per bags, but we'll be looking for any and all good ideas...."
I think they have too much invested in BFF to pull the plug, but GK is retreating from the past when he said it was sacrosanct. The Wall Street jackals have never liked it, but GK's response was that the extra passengers that flew WN because of BFF more than compensated for the lack of bag revenue. No mention of that this time.
I think ticket change fees are coming. Wall Street has never liked the lack of change fees either (they're a tough crowd to please) and they are less visible than some other possible changes, such as assigned seats with better locations costing extra.
--"...I did want to admit what I think is the obvious, which is we're off (financial) plan. We do have some concerns about the economy and higher fuel prices, and I don't we want to just continue on with business as usual. So we will be looking for way to augment our current strategies which I'm very enthused about already...." (Don't you feel the enthusiasm?)
--When asked if that could mean "reconsidering" Bags Fly Free: "Well, for now, of course not. I don't think we would ever say no to anything whether it's assigned seats or charging per bags, but we'll be looking for any and all good ideas...."
I think they have too much invested in BFF to pull the plug, but GK is retreating from the past when he said it was sacrosanct. The Wall Street jackals have never liked it, but GK's response was that the extra passengers that flew WN because of BFF more than compensated for the lack of bag revenue. No mention of that this time.
I think ticket change fees are coming. Wall Street has never liked the lack of change fees either (they're a tough crowd to please) and they are less visible than some other possible changes, such as assigned seats with better locations costing extra.
Other observations from the October thread:
I would really hate it if they started imposing change penalties. At the same time, I know that Wall Streeters view no change fees as a license for people to buy a ticket now and trade it in later on a lower fare should there be a sale and pocket the credit for future use. I'm concerned that this argument may make headway.
