Rapid Rewards 2.0 begins March 1, 2011
Jan 13, 2011, 10:51 pm
#766
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SJC and ONT
Programs: WN A-List/CP, HHonors Diamond, CX J with AA miles, US Gold/*G
Posts: 2,082
Jan 14, 2011, 5:03 am
#767
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Chicagoland, IL, USA
Programs: WN CP, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 14,185
Jan 14, 2011, 5:08 am
#768
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Chicagoland, IL, USA
Programs: WN CP, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 14,185
C) 3.3 cents per mile is not the BEST redemption value for international business, rather one of the WORSE redemption value.
E) 250,000 miles would yield a standard award for US - East Asia business class on United, granting a last seat availability. Meaning that it actually is worth easily up to $8,000 for unrestricted J ticket, or at least $4000 for discounted business class ticket. or 5 standard award for any domestic unrestricted economy - $800 each (conservatively) comes out about $4000.
E) 250,000 miles would yield a standard award for US - East Asia business class on United, granting a last seat availability. Meaning that it actually is worth easily up to $8,000 for unrestricted J ticket, or at least $4000 for discounted business class ticket. or 5 standard award for any domestic unrestricted economy - $800 each (conservatively) comes out about $4000.
To you a RT in J from US-East Asia may be worth $8000. Cool. To me it might be worth $1000. Or $0, if I can't or don't want to go, especially since I can't sell it to anyone. If airlines start to allow us to sell our FF miles, then we'd be talking.
And if you have a ready Companion, WN looks better. If you don't, I agree, WN may very well not be for you. Everyone's situation is different.
Last edited by toomanybooks; Jan 14, 2011 at 5:25 am
Jan 14, 2011, 5:32 am
#769
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Chicagoland, IL, USA
Programs: WN CP, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 14,185
So I was thinking... many of the "loopholes" for "gaming" have been closed or have changed in the new program... but there are ways to fully maximize the program.
A) Visa card... since points are worth up to 1.66 cents per point on WGA redemptions, its like getting a 1.66% rebate on all your purchases. And with the double points with Southwest purchases, and its hotel and car partners, its like a 3.33% rebate on all those purchases...
B) If you are A+ and buy B.S. fares, you get 24 points per $ plus another 2 if you pay with the SWA Visa. That's 26 points per $. At 1.66c each, that's like a 43% "rebate" on the fare.
C) If you have a Companion Pass, and you redeem for a WGA fare, you get a return of 3.33 cents per point value. That's fairly comparable with the best redemption values on the legacies if you try to redeem for business class overseas.
D) Combine A & B & C (B.S. fare, A+, Visa and CP, redeem for WGA), you'll get an 86% "rebate" on your fares. That's pretty sweet.
E) Thinking about the 250,000 miles I have on legacy airlines, I think I'd rather have RR2.0 points which would get me $4150 worth of ANY WGA flights, not just the ones the airline "wants" me to redeem for. I can't find reasonable awards on the legacies when I want to travel. Usually I find a $300 flight and they won't give it away for 25,000 miles...that frustrates me.
A) Visa card... since points are worth up to 1.66 cents per point on WGA redemptions, its like getting a 1.66% rebate on all your purchases. And with the double points with Southwest purchases, and its hotel and car partners, its like a 3.33% rebate on all those purchases...
B) If you are A+ and buy B.S. fares, you get 24 points per $ plus another 2 if you pay with the SWA Visa. That's 26 points per $. At 1.66c each, that's like a 43% "rebate" on the fare.
C) If you have a Companion Pass, and you redeem for a WGA fare, you get a return of 3.33 cents per point value. That's fairly comparable with the best redemption values on the legacies if you try to redeem for business class overseas.
D) Combine A & B & C (B.S. fare, A+, Visa and CP, redeem for WGA), you'll get an 86% "rebate" on your fares. That's pretty sweet.
E) Thinking about the 250,000 miles I have on legacy airlines, I think I'd rather have RR2.0 points which would get me $4150 worth of ANY WGA flights, not just the ones the airline "wants" me to redeem for. I can't find reasonable awards on the legacies when I want to travel. Usually I find a $300 flight and they won't give it away for 25,000 miles...that frustrates me.
And I imagine there will be "double/triple points" offers and "double TQP" offers and fast-tracks, and so on. The development of WN "points run" discussions is is going to be fun to watch; we might need a new sticky.
The best strategy for a lot of folks will be to use WN for some flights and a legacy airline for others. Some deals mile-wise will be superior, and some points-wise.
Last edited by toomanybooks; Jan 14, 2011 at 6:20 am
Jan 14, 2011, 8:26 am
#770
Join Date: May 2007
Location: DFW
Programs: WN A+, AA, HYATT DIAMOND, SPG
Posts: 1,125
Your analysis looks pretty good to me, but I'd add ftnoob's point: Tickets purchased for business travel are tax-deductible and the Awards are not taxable. So your 86% figure gets even better, to way over 100%. Think of what a high-income CA or NY businessperson might effectively reap with his/her state income tax rate (or especially the spouse of one, who even with minimal income faces a marginal rate including FICA pushing 60%). Too early in the morning for me to calculate precisely, but it's astronomical.
And I imagine there will be "double/triple points" offers and "double TQP" offers and fast-tracks, and so on. The development of WN "points run" discussions is is going to be fun to watch; we might need a new sticky.
The best strategy for a lot of folks will be to use WN for some flights and a legacy airline for others. Some deals mile-wise will be superior, and some points-wise.
And I imagine there will be "double/triple points" offers and "double TQP" offers and fast-tracks, and so on. The development of WN "points run" discussions is is going to be fun to watch; we might need a new sticky.
The best strategy for a lot of folks will be to use WN for some flights and a legacy airline for others. Some deals mile-wise will be superior, and some points-wise.
Jan 14, 2011, 8:50 am
#771
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 3
A really cool online calculator for SWA RR 2 rewards
It was inevitable that someone would build an easy to use calculator to determine how much value you will receive under the new Rapid Rewards 2.0 program. This is the calculator that SWA should have on their website, http://www.marsfrequentflyer.com/Southwest.html, I just added it to my bookmarks. 
Once you enter in your likely spend on WGA, Anytime, and Business Select, the calculator is really cool in that you can toggle back and forth between Membership levels to see how that affects your reward value as well as how the type of ticket (WGA, Anytime of Business Select) you choose affects your reward value.
VMM
Once you enter in your likely spend on WGA, Anytime, and Business Select, the calculator is really cool in that you can toggle back and forth between Membership levels to see how that affects your reward value as well as how the type of ticket (WGA, Anytime of Business Select) you choose affects your reward value.
VMM
Jan 14, 2011, 10:29 am
#772
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: LAX
Programs: Mosaic 2, Bonvoy Gold, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt Globalist, Premium Cabin free agent
Posts: 848
It's ok. Did a couple of mileage runs a couple of years ago when UA offered triple EQM's for fares that booked into F, A, P and ONT - TPA booked directly into First class would net you about 18,000 EQMS + the RDM bonus and elite bonus all for about $600. If you feel the value is there you haven't lost your mind :-)
Jan 14, 2011, 10:35 am
#773
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Location: MSY; 2-time FT Fantasy Football Champ, now in recovery.
Programs: AA lifetime GLD; UA Silver; Marriott LTTE; IHG Plat,
Posts: 14,517
Doing some math
So I was looking at an April trip where the WGA fares are sold out. My choices are $195 for Anytime, or $210 for Business Select. I realized that the extra points earned on the BS fare (mostly thanks to the higher multiplier) would be valued at $9.50 if used towards a future WGA ticket. If I consumed the $5 drink, then the differential I'm paying for the priority boarding privileges is just 50 cents.
What if I didn't want the drink, nor did I care about my boarding number. Doing some old fashioned High School algebra, I find that with a fixed upcharge of $15 to move from Anytime to BS, the breaking point is $360. For fares above that, the extra points you earn will exceed the price differential, if you plan to redeem at WGA levels. Of course, if you put a value on the free drink or early boarding, that number drops, but even if you don't, there's no reason to ever buy an Anytime fare over $360, if BS is available.
What if I didn't want the drink, nor did I care about my boarding number. Doing some old fashioned High School algebra, I find that with a fixed upcharge of $15 to move from Anytime to BS, the breaking point is $360. For fares above that, the extra points you earn will exceed the price differential, if you plan to redeem at WGA levels. Of course, if you put a value on the free drink or early boarding, that number drops, but even if you don't, there's no reason to ever buy an Anytime fare over $360, if BS is available.
Jan 14, 2011, 12:58 pm
#774
Moderator: Southwest Airlines, Capital One
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
Programs: WN Companion Pass, A-list preferred, Hyatt Globalist; United Club Lietime (sic) Member
Posts: 21,620
Based on the above math, we can expect the gap between Anytime and BS fares to widen after March 1.
Jan 15, 2011, 3:08 pm
#775
Join Date: May 2004
Programs: Various Programs of Interest & LT Collector.
Posts: 1,483
Transition for Companion Pass
During 2011 only, you will qualify or re-qualify for Companion Pass if you meet the criterion under either the old rule or the new ones:
(a) Accrue 100 credits from any source within a rolling 12 months, or
(b) Take 100 or more paid one-way flights or earn 110,000 points from any source in calendar year 2011.
During 2011 only, you will qualify or re-qualify for Companion Pass if you meet the criterion under either the old rule or the new ones:
(a) Accrue 100 credits from any source within a rolling 12 months, or
(b) Take 100 or more paid one-way flights or earn 110,000 points from any source in calendar year 2011.
I'll have a good example on how well they implement this in the next month.
My expiration date is 02/28/2011 and I met the 100 point counter mid last year with most of the points coming from a points transfer in Jan'10.
However, that has now rolled off as >12 months ago and I'm now way down to ~20 RRs in the last 12 months.
Many experienced CP'ers know this is just an oddity in the online tracking and how WN syncs up the point counter reset data and new Companion Status timing. If you qualified anytime during your period you will requaliify even if your past 12 months isn't still at 100 on the date yours expires (due to the first month of your counter RRs dropping off).
So under the old system I'd requalify and receive a card about 30 days prior to my status expiring. This would be the end of Jan in my case.
I'm waiting to see if this still happens with the systems transitioning....
You can be sure if I don't get one in the mail by Feb 1st I'll be calling Southwest quickly....
Jan 15, 2011, 8:55 pm
#776
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Home
Posts: 1,910
I just booked a $59 flight for my wife in April. It says she will earn 1 RR credit.
I am now going to assume that all flights BOOKED after 3/1 will receive the new points. All flights booked before 3/1 will still get the old RR credits.
I am now going to assume that all flights BOOKED after 3/1 will receive the new points. All flights booked before 3/1 will still get the old RR credits.
Jan 15, 2011, 9:04 pm
#777
Moderator: Southwest Airlines, Capital One
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
Programs: WN Companion Pass, A-list preferred, Hyatt Globalist; United Club Lietime (sic) Member
Posts: 21,620
It's risky to make assumptions about reality based on what the Southwest website tells you.
Jan 15, 2011, 9:24 pm
#778
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,975
I've noticed that on the site too. One can complain about the accuracy of the booking section, but I take it from the NewRR site that there will be no such thing as earning credits from March 1 on. They make clear that partner credits earned before then but posted later will post as 2.0 points.
Jan 16, 2011, 3:13 pm
#779
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: OH & NV
Programs: AA Lifetime Plat, WN CP, Latin Pass Bonus
Posts: 3,707
I'll have a good example on how well they implement this in the next month.
My expiration date is 02/28/2011 and I met the 100 point counter mid last year with most of the points coming from a points transfer in Jan'10.
However, that has now rolled off as >12 months ago and I'm now way down to ~20 RRs in the last 12 months.
Many experienced CP'ers know this is just an oddity in the online tracking and how WN syncs up the point counter reset data and new Companion Status timing. If you qualified anytime during your period you will requaliify even if your past 12 months isn't still at 100 on the date yours expires (due to the first month of your counter RRs dropping off).
So under the old system I'd requalify and receive a card about 30 days prior to my status expiring. This would be the end of Jan in my case.
I'm waiting to see if this still happens with the systems transitioning....
You can be sure if I don't get one in the mail by Feb 1st I'll be calling Southwest quickly....
My expiration date is 02/28/2011 and I met the 100 point counter mid last year with most of the points coming from a points transfer in Jan'10.
However, that has now rolled off as >12 months ago and I'm now way down to ~20 RRs in the last 12 months.
Many experienced CP'ers know this is just an oddity in the online tracking and how WN syncs up the point counter reset data and new Companion Status timing. If you qualified anytime during your period you will requaliify even if your past 12 months isn't still at 100 on the date yours expires (due to the first month of your counter RRs dropping off).
So under the old system I'd requalify and receive a card about 30 days prior to my status expiring. This would be the end of Jan in my case.
I'm waiting to see if this still happens with the systems transitioning....
You can be sure if I don't get one in the mail by Feb 1st I'll be calling Southwest quickly....
Please let us know when notified. Thanks.
Jan 17, 2011, 10:21 am
#780
Join Date: May 2010
Location: DFW
Programs: American - Platinum Pro, Marriott - Platinum
Posts: 479
need 0.25 credits for 1 award roundtrip
Any suggestions?
Should I try to get the 0.25 credits before March 1, or wait until after RR2.0 comes along.
I don't travel frequently, and don't intend to do so...only thing on my mind is the terms and conditions of the new award trip with RR2.0 versus the old award trip.
Thanks in advance for the advice!
Should I try to get the 0.25 credits before March 1, or wait until after RR2.0 comes along.
I don't travel frequently, and don't intend to do so...only thing on my mind is the terms and conditions of the new award trip with RR2.0 versus the old award trip.
Thanks in advance for the advice!