Rapid Rewards 2.0 begins March 1, 2011

Old Jan 6, 11, 8:37 am
  #61  
 
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April fools!!! (?)
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Old Jan 6, 11, 8:37 am
  #62  
 
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What happens to my new WN CC?

I've been waiting for several months to get another invitation for a WN Signtaure Visa card that gives me 2 free flights off the bat. It finally game last week. I went online, got immediately approved, and was sent an e-mail yesterday that my new card will be in the mail shortly. I assume that so long as I make my first purchase by 2/28, the 2 free flights will be deposited in my account - I'm not worried about that.

However, does this new RR2.0 mean that Chase will be issuing me another brand new CC as soon as the switchover happens or will the old "Signature" card simply be ubiquitous to their new "Premiere" card?
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Old Jan 6, 11, 8:38 am
  #63  
 
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Originally Posted by nsx View Post
True, but I just can't imagine anyone paying 20% more points for (just BS boarding priority and a drink, no points earned) when EBCI is only $10.
They will.
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Old Jan 6, 11, 8:40 am
  #64  
 
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Originally Posted by 4thplz View Post
They will.
When you're A-List, booking awards, there is really no reason to. I guess for your companion, but we've never bothered with that and have always sat together.
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Old Jan 6, 11, 8:41 am
  #65  
 
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Originally Posted by Beckles View Post
10,000 bonus RDM per domestic round-trip is hardly a 'common promotion' on Delta or any other carrier, so it seems there is quite a trick in your calculations.
10,000 RDM promotion lasted for about 6 months on DL last year. These are the opportunities that will now become less common if the legacies adopt some of the new WN ideas.
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Old Jan 6, 11, 8:42 am
  #66  
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Originally Posted by xadiohead View Post
So basically what Southwest is saying to all its customers that take short trips on the cheap fairs is "SCREW YOU, WE DO NOT CARE ABOUT YOU".
I think what they are saying is that with oil approaching $100 a barrel, they can't afford any more to give a free RT worth hundreds of dollars to someone who flies 16 $39 flights and gives them $624 revenue.

A pretty reasonable position.
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Old Jan 6, 11, 8:47 am
  #67  
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Originally Posted by turkeyRIOO View Post
This new program is horrific and I am very surprised at the positive spin from most posters.

I am scared to death that this will creep over to the legacies. A 40% return is nothing! An example with DL during a common promotion. There are no tricks.

BNA-ATL-SFO
$218 ai RT
5,150 RDM
5,150 Status Bonus RDM
10000 bonus RDM

Total 20,300 RDM

Amex gift cards 11,000/$100

Return in cash $185 or 85%
Return in Miles @ $0.02/mile $406 or 186%

These are the FTer returns that are now on the endangered species list.

PS. Even a no-status member would see a 139% return on mileage. Amex gift card redemption rates are higher for no-status/no credit card members.
Expecting the double miles year after year for a city is going to be the exception, not the rule.

I do agree that the changes are mostly bad for most customers. Folks who spend a lot will benefit the most but even then the up-side is somewhat limited. Yes, there are some good perks - free WiFi for elites and solid earning rates on higher fares - but most customers are going to lose IMO.

My overall analysis is here and doesn't contain anything earth-shattering but the general conclusions I drew are these:
For the folks (like me) who travel on the cheapest available fares the changes are pretty horrible. The earning rates are limited and the redemption rates are magnified. At worst (earning only on WGA fares and redeeming on BS fares) the value hits about 5%. If you only every pay for BS fares and manage to redeem on WGA fares then those numbers switch around, making the value something like 20% which is rather respectable. And if you’re flying enough to hit A-List Plus (about $5,800 in spend on BS fares) you’ll be earning at a 2x rate due to the 100% bonus. That can drive the value up to 40% if you’re still able to redeem on the WGA fares. Most folks will never realize that high a rate and odds are it will be somewhere around the nominal 10% rate for most customers. Not horrible but not great. And, more to the point, much harder to game.

Compared to the new TrueBlue program the “Rapid Rewards 2.0” system seems more mature and developed. The existing partner infrastructure certainly helps in that but Southwest has also maintained their elite program and even improved it in a few ways. While JetBlue does reward increased spend over time in $500 increments Southwest starts at a slightly higher point value and provides the bonus on all spend, not just at the threshold points, once you hit the status level. Southwest also has established a number of other useful benefits for their elite members beyond just point earning (priority security & phone access and free WiFi are the main ones).

The folks who spend money with the airline are going to come out of this change doing quite well. It makes sense for the company to reward that. The key will be convincing the occasional traveler that there is still value in the program. The extended expiry policy will actually do that to some extent while the advertising of no black-out dates and last seat availability will make things appear good to many customers.
For most RR customers this is going to hurt. A lot.
Originally Posted by kujay View Post
My quick opinion is that, as someone who books last-minute BS tickets (almost always $700 or more), this is going to work out pretty well.
Yup. You're the target audience that every airline wants and you'll come out smelling like roses on this, assuming you're spending that $700/ticket more than bi-monthly.
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Old Jan 6, 11, 8:50 am
  #68  
 
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Originally Posted by toomanybooks View Post
I think what they are saying is that with oil approaching $100 a barrel, they can't afford any more to give a free RT worth hundreds of dollars to someone who flies 16 $39 flights and gives them $624 revenue.

A pretty reasonable position.
I fly many long leg trips across the country on top of tons of short trips for work and use Southwest a lot. They were getting 95% of my business. Over the past year, between my work travel and personal travel I'm sure I spent well over 15K on Southwest.

They are losing a loyal customer to please some Business Select customers.
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Old Jan 6, 11, 8:50 am
  #69  
 
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Originally Posted by toomanybooks View Post
2 cents each valuation on Skymiles is optimistic. I know people who would sell you as many as you could afford at that price. Many folks value them at less than a penny.

And I assume WN will start having to play some of these highly specific mileage-run type games, too.
Example DL
ATL-PDX 19 JAN-21 JAN Flt 2565 return on 1576, $1097 rt or 25,000 miles value 4.4 cents per mile. This is without accessing any elite inventory. I was being conservative at 2 cents as anything less than 4 cents will get you flamed on the DL forum.
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Old Jan 6, 11, 8:51 am
  #70  
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Originally Posted by xadiohead View Post
I've been flying these short trips on Southwest for 10 years now but if I am looking at this correctly then I am done with Southwest.

I knew 2.0 would be bad, but this is ridiculous. This only helps the 2% of Southwest customers that waste money on the Business Select and high dollar fairs.

This is a slap in the face to loyal Southwest customers to take regular short hauls. I guess the only positive I got out of this was an extra 3 months of companion pass. But I will never be able to get companion pass again on this new program so I am done.

FU southwest.
Same here. I live in DTW so if it's a paid fare only do DTW to MDW or DTW to BNA since you have to connect for any other city or if you are lucky enough to find a direct it isn't non stop and stops at at least 2 other cities.

I can't believe they are still going to charge their top list a-listers to fly on an earlier flight.

I am just thankful I made medallian status on Delta last year and use a Delta hub.
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Old Jan 6, 11, 8:52 am
  #71  
 
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Originally Posted by turkeyRIOO View Post
This new program is horrific and I am very surprised at the positive spin from most posters.

I am scared to death that this will creep over to the legacies. A 40% return is nothing! An example with DL during a common promotion. There are no tricks.

BNA-ATL-SFO
$218 ai RT
5,150 RDM
5,150 Status Bonus RDM
10000 bonus RDM

Total 20,300 RDM

Amex gift cards 11,000/$100

Return in cash $185 or 85%
Return in Miles @ $0.02/mile $406 or 186%

These are the FTer returns that are now on the endangered species list.

PS. Even a no-status member would see a 139% return on mileage. Amex gift card redemption rates are higher for no-status/no credit card members.
Bravo. I'm reading this thread just out of curiosity, to try to figure out what the rebate rate is in the new program that will be coming to ATL's home airline competition.

Even without the 10k BNA rdm promo miles, it's usually very easy to get rebate rates way better than the BS to WGA rate of 20%.

So glad I'm a DL flier, and will remain one. All of my skypeso redemptions are for 100k BE trips to Europe, which are surprisingly easy to find if you know how to look.

And what's the point of being elite on an airline that will not have a forward cabin? Seriously.

This program revamp is a weak attempt at keeping business travelers that will jump ship once Southwest starts ripping the F seats off of Airtran's metal.

Bash away, LUV lovers. I won't see it, as I'm heading back to the DL board where I usually am.
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Old Jan 6, 11, 8:55 am
  #72  
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Originally Posted by turkeyRIOO View Post
10,000 RDM promotion lasted for about 6 months on DL last year.
1) Regardless of how long the promotion was, it is not a 'common promotion' Delta runs.

2) The promotion you are referring to was only available from four specific airports.

Claiming that an uncommon promotion available from a very limited number of airports is representative of typical earnings on Delta is extremely disingenuous in my opinion.
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Old Jan 6, 11, 9:03 am
  #73  
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Originally Posted by turkeyRIOO View Post
Example DL
ATL-PDX 19 JAN-21 JAN Flt 2565 return on 1576, $1097 rt or 25,000 miles value 4.4 cents per mile. This is without accessing any elite inventory. I was being conservative at 2 cents as anything less than 4 cents will get you flamed on the DL forum.
Oh, come on, get real. There's no way on earth ATL-PDX RT is "worth" $1100. More like a third of that, or less.

I can buy the same itinerary on Expedia, right now, less than 2 weeks in advance for the outbound, for $253.80 all-in. And get miles for the trip, bringing the true cost down substantially.

1 Ticket / Roundtrip
ATL Atlanta to
PDX Portland
Leave: Wed 19-Jan
Return: Fri 21-Jan
1 adult $218.01
Taxes & Fees $35.79
Total $253.80

Last edited by toomanybooks; Jan 6, 11 at 9:17 am
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Old Jan 6, 11, 9:05 am
  #74  
 
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So basically what Southwest is saying to all its customers that take short trips on the cheap fairs is "SCREW YOU, WE DO NOT CARE ABOUT YOU".

A $39 dollar flight will equal about 300 points ($50*6). To then redeem a $200 "wanna get away" free flight you would need 12000 points. That is equivalent to FORTY $39 flights to get a $200 free flight! If you wanted to redeem a $200 "anytime" free flight you would need SIXTY SEVEN $39 flights ($50*6*67= 20100 points)! SURELY I am not doing this math correctly. This is a joke!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've been flying these short trips on Southwest for 10 years now but if I am looking at this correctly then I am done with Southwest.

I knew 2.0 would be bad, but this is ridiculous. This only helps the 2% of Southwest customers that waste money on the Business Select and high dollar fairs.

This is a slap in the face to loyal Southwest customers to take regular short hauls. I guess the only positive I got out of this was an extra 3 months of companion pass. But I will never be able to get companion pass again on this new program so I am done.

FU southwest.
As an Airtran Elite who typically flies BOS - BWI I'll be in the same boat. I mean, they keep talking about pushing this market but you look at the rewards program and geez. I mean 80 some flights for elite (just a quick guess)? That's crazy. Back to looking for another carrier. Sadly jetblue doesn't seem much better.
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Old Jan 6, 11, 9:07 am
  #75  
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In my opinion the earning rate for flying on Southwest has been pretty blah since they've removed the online booking bonuses however many years ago, so one can look at all the comparisons they want of flight earnings, it doesn't matter much to me.

The real strength of Rapid Rewards that has made it my go to program since moving to MCI is the partner earnings, and if anything that has only improved under the new program. I will now get $10 towards a Wanna Get Away fare with any hotel and rental car transaction. That is a very good value in my opinion, and if there are any double-triple-quadruple-quintuple promotions in the future, as there have been in the past, it will only get better.
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