Saving seats is becoming an epidemic! EarlyBird check in.
Feb 21, 2010, 8:34 am
#16
Join Date: May 2006
Location: BOS and ...
Programs: UA 2MM, AA 600k, DL 500k, Hyatt GP 1M, HH Gold, Rad. Gold, CP Gold, Miracle Fruit-su Club
Posts: 9,950
First, having Don'tCallMeShirley start this thread is huge. Thank you. I hope there's a vehicle for this to be communicated to Southwest's culture thingy.
And, nsx, your anecdote would make me hope that a FA or someone would communicate all the good for families in Southwest's boarding process. Including possibly saving some money.
(A30?!)
And, nsx, your anecdote would make me hope that a FA or someone would communicate all the good for families in Southwest's boarding process. Including possibly saving some money.
(A30?!)
Feb 21, 2010, 10:39 am
#17
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,098
I really hope you try to do that to me someday. I truly do.
Obviously.
What happens when you run into real problems in your life?
This is the biggest non-issue on earth... well... at least since the Tiger Woods story broke out.
I completely agree with your take on the situation. I'll save my wife/CP holder a seat, explain nicely that "I can't/wouldn't tell you not to sit here, but I'd like to save this for my wife if you don't mind." No one ever minds. If you do mind, I'll move, but you *are* a jerk, whether you care what others think of you or not.
Obviously.
What happens when you run into real problems in your life?
This is the biggest non-issue on earth... well... at least since the Tiger Woods story broke out.
I completely agree with your take on the situation. I'll save my wife/CP holder a seat, explain nicely that "I can't/wouldn't tell you not to sit here, but I'd like to save this for my wife if you don't mind." No one ever minds. If you do mind, I'll move, but you *are* a jerk, whether you care what others think of you or not.
Think of it like traffic. At an intersection they have the right of way and are not required to yeild. Are they jerks for not giving up their right of way to you? Or are you the jerk for expecting them to and getting angry when they don't?
Do you "seat poach" on other airlines too? That is, do you take someone elses seat before they arrive so you can sit with your partner, and then accuse the proper seat owner of being a jerk for not giving it up?
And in a situation where boarding order is PAID for, as in the case of EBCI..you are pretty much asking them to throw away 10 dollars when you decide to "save" seats.
Good lord, can you not be away from your spouse for more than an hour? Grow up.
Feb 21, 2010, 11:08 am
#18
Join Date: Nov 2007
Programs: DL GM, WN AL/CP, UA Silver, Marriott Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 1,483
No, you would be the jerk in the situation. WN seating is first-come, first served. Someone who takes a seat you try to save is within the rules and policy..nobody is a jerk for obeying the rules as written..however someone who attempts to bend the rules for their own conveinience..as a seat saver does...and expects to be accomoated by complete strangers IS a jerk, and more so when those total stranger refuse to do what you want and you accuse THEM of being the jerk.
Think of it like traffic. At an intersection they have the right of way and are not required to yeild. Are they jerks for not giving up their right of way to you? Or are you the jerk for expecting them to and getting angry when they don't?
Do you "seat poach" on other airlines too? That is, do you take someone elses seat before they arrive so you can sit with your partner, and then accuse the proper seat owner of being a jerk for not giving it up?
And in a situation where boarding order is PAID for, as in the case of EBCI..you are pretty much asking them to throw away 10 dollars when you decide to "save" seats.
Good lord, can you not be away from your spouse for more than an hour? Grow up.
Think of it like traffic. At an intersection they have the right of way and are not required to yeild. Are they jerks for not giving up their right of way to you? Or are you the jerk for expecting them to and getting angry when they don't?
Do you "seat poach" on other airlines too? That is, do you take someone elses seat before they arrive so you can sit with your partner, and then accuse the proper seat owner of being a jerk for not giving it up?
And in a situation where boarding order is PAID for, as in the case of EBCI..you are pretty much asking them to throw away 10 dollars when you decide to "save" seats.
Good lord, can you not be away from your spouse for more than an hour? Grow up.
No, I sit in my assigned seat when I have an assigned seat, and ask people to move when not with my travel party. People are always accommodating to that, and no one has ever told me to "grow up" because I want to sit next to my friends or family members.
What you say doesn't reflect the reality of what happens when you're actually boarding a plane. People like me will keep saving seats for loved ones, people like you (not very many IME are like you) will continue to be angry at people like me over something very minor. You're threatening lawsuits against WN and its pax, over the fact you might have to take a different aisle seat than the first one you saw. That's really what it boils down to.
I mean, really, keep being angry, I'm sure it will make the world better for you.
And telling me to grow up because I want to spend time with my wife? I could say the same to you about not getting the EXACT SEAT you want for a one hour flight. This is *really* minor stuff people are huffing and puffing about. EBCI ensures you're not B57 if you forget to check in at T-24; it doesn't ensure you anything else.
Last edited by judolphin; Feb 21, 2010 at 11:24 am
Feb 21, 2010, 8:23 pm
#19
Moderator: Southwest Airlines, Capital One
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
Programs: WN Companion Pass, A-list preferred, Hyatt Globalist; United Club Lietime (sic) Member
Posts: 21,614
Feb 21, 2010, 11:26 pm
#20
Join Date: May 2009
Location: LAX
Programs: AA Gold
Posts: 398
No, you would be the jerk in the situation. WN seating is first-come, first served. Someone who takes a seat you try to save is within the rules and policy..nobody is a jerk for obeying the rules as written..however someone who attempts to bend the rules for their own conveinience..as a seat saver does...and expects to be accomoated by complete strangers IS a jerk, and more so when those total stranger refuse to do what you want and you accuse THEM of being the jerk.
Think of it like traffic. At an intersection they have the right of way and are not required to yeild. Are they jerks for not giving up their right of way to you? Or are you the jerk for expecting them to and getting angry when they don't?
Do you "seat poach" on other airlines too? That is, do you take someone elses seat before they arrive so you can sit with your partner, and then accuse the proper seat owner of being a jerk for not giving it up?
And in a situation where boarding order is PAID for, as in the case of EBCI..you are pretty much asking them to throw away 10 dollars when you decide to "save" seats.
Good lord, can you not be away from your spouse for more than an hour? Grow up.
Think of it like traffic. At an intersection they have the right of way and are not required to yeild. Are they jerks for not giving up their right of way to you? Or are you the jerk for expecting them to and getting angry when they don't?
Do you "seat poach" on other airlines too? That is, do you take someone elses seat before they arrive so you can sit with your partner, and then accuse the proper seat owner of being a jerk for not giving it up?
And in a situation where boarding order is PAID for, as in the case of EBCI..you are pretty much asking them to throw away 10 dollars when you decide to "save" seats.
Good lord, can you not be away from your spouse for more than an hour? Grow up.
You, dear Pinworm, have every right to see to it that the technical rules regarding saving seats are followed. I just hope that at some point, when you least expect it, someone will follow the rules in a very strict and tehcnical way that will cause you inconvenience or discomfort. It's called karma kickback and it's a [female dog].
Feb 22, 2010, 6:29 am
#21
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 50
I'm Type A on the majors, at the DMV, and on a bad day at home. Do this now or else, stop lying to me, I'm going to make your life miserable if you dont cooperate
I'm trying to get better with staying Type B at home. Type A is the only way you get anything from the major carriers.
Personally, on the seat thing, if you aren't one of the first 3 in line you shouldn't expect an exit row. But I can see why opinions would vary. Seems like one seat is reasonable to hold, more than one means you should pay more than once. 2 for 3, etc. Maybe people shouldn't be holding exit row seats at all, I could go either way on that.
I guess the only thing WN could really do would be to let you pick the Exit Row seat when you buy EB
Feb 22, 2010, 11:56 am
#22
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,098
Pinworm,
No, I sit in my assigned seat when I have an assigned seat, and ask people to move when not with my travel party. People are always accommodating to that, and no one has ever told me to "grow up" because I want to sit next to my friends or family members.
What you say doesn't reflect the reality of what happens when you're actually boarding a plane. People like me will keep saving seats for loved ones, people like you (not very many IME are like you) will continue to be angry at people like me over something very minor. You're threatening lawsuits against WN and its pax, over the fact you might have to take a different aisle seat than the first one you saw. That's really what it boils down to.
I mean, really, keep being angry, I'm sure it will make the world better for you.
And telling me to grow up because I want to spend time with my wife? I could say the same to you about not getting the EXACT SEAT you want for a one hour flight. This is *really* minor stuff people are huffing and puffing about. EBCI ensures you're not B57 if you forget to check in at T-24; it doesn't ensure you anything else.
No, I sit in my assigned seat when I have an assigned seat, and ask people to move when not with my travel party. People are always accommodating to that, and no one has ever told me to "grow up" because I want to sit next to my friends or family members.
What you say doesn't reflect the reality of what happens when you're actually boarding a plane. People like me will keep saving seats for loved ones, people like you (not very many IME are like you) will continue to be angry at people like me over something very minor. You're threatening lawsuits against WN and its pax, over the fact you might have to take a different aisle seat than the first one you saw. That's really what it boils down to.
I mean, really, keep being angry, I'm sure it will make the world better for you.
And telling me to grow up because I want to spend time with my wife? I could say the same to you about not getting the EXACT SEAT you want for a one hour flight. This is *really* minor stuff people are huffing and puffing about. EBCI ensures you're not B57 if you forget to check in at T-24; it doesn't ensure you anything else.
I would only get litigious if someone tried to stop me from taking a seat..physically. However, if your wife did not pay for EBCI and I did, you can pony up the 10 dollars I paid to have seat choices ahead of her.
I am not after any particular seat, however if the only remaining aisle seat is occupied by a saver for a pax that is not yet boarded, I am taking it and I am NOT a jerk for taking what I am entitled to. Foisting unreasonable expectations on total strangers is the jerk move. Nobody is under obligation to accomodate you..if they decide to, great. But if they don't they are not jerks.
Feb 22, 2010, 12:03 pm
#23
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,098
How official rules are interpreted and followed in practice is often different from the text of the rules themselves. You mention traffic. Cops have every right to give you a ticket for driving one mile over the speed limit, but typically they don't. The person who doesn't return his seat to the full and upright position when the annoucement is made is not following the commands of the crew and could be cited for interfering with an aircraft in flight (or whatever those technical words are), but usually isn't. Anyone who has ever -- under any circumstances -- possessed a photo of a person under 18 who is nude -- even a baby -- is guilty of possession of child pornography, but authorities typically ignore the rule in the case of parents and their own children.
You, dear Pinworm, have every right to see to it that the technical rules regarding saving seats are followed. I just hope that at some point, when you least expect it, someone will follow the rules in a very strict and tehcnical way that will cause you inconvenience or discomfort. It's called karma kickback and it's a [female dog].
You, dear Pinworm, have every right to see to it that the technical rules regarding saving seats are followed. I just hope that at some point, when you least expect it, someone will follow the rules in a very strict and tehcnical way that will cause you inconvenience or discomfort. It's called karma kickback and it's a [female dog].
There is a ridiculous sense of entitlement out there...that someone can save a seat for their own intrests over the intrests of a large group of people who are A list or who have purchased EBCI. It's line cutting, and there is no way around it other than to have a zero tolerance policy.
Feb 22, 2010, 1:44 pm
#24
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 17,404
Interesting thread. I'm not sure we're at "epidemic" levels yet, but I did see more "seat saving" last week than I've ever previously encountered. One person was actually saving 5 seats for their group.
I boarded around A45 so I didn't really care -- I just had to sit 2 or 3 rows further back than otherwise. Obviously, with a higher number, it might have had a more materil impact on my seat selection.
Personally, I try to "game the system" by checking in 24 hours before flight. This is probably the least "obnoxious" way to do it. It still works well enough, although I seem to be getting higher check-in numbers than I did previously (like a year ago).
That said, for family travel, if a situation arises where I can't check-in 24 hours in advance -- or that strategy stops working -- I could easily see myself paying the $10 fee for myself and then saving seats for my family. After all, it's not even against the rules! I have a wife and 3 kids. If we all travel together, I could save $40 by buying only one early check in. Why not?
Obviously, this is a problem WN didn't completely think through. Hopefully, most of their customers won't think it through either, and the problem will simply exist on the margins. Otherwise, WN is going to need to discontinue EarlyBird sales or adopt -- and ENFORCE -- a rule against seat saving.
In the meatime, game away.
I boarded around A45 so I didn't really care -- I just had to sit 2 or 3 rows further back than otherwise. Obviously, with a higher number, it might have had a more materil impact on my seat selection.
Personally, I try to "game the system" by checking in 24 hours before flight. This is probably the least "obnoxious" way to do it. It still works well enough, although I seem to be getting higher check-in numbers than I did previously (like a year ago).
That said, for family travel, if a situation arises where I can't check-in 24 hours in advance -- or that strategy stops working -- I could easily see myself paying the $10 fee for myself and then saving seats for my family. After all, it's not even against the rules! I have a wife and 3 kids. If we all travel together, I could save $40 by buying only one early check in. Why not?
Obviously, this is a problem WN didn't completely think through. Hopefully, most of their customers won't think it through either, and the problem will simply exist on the margins. Otherwise, WN is going to need to discontinue EarlyBird sales or adopt -- and ENFORCE -- a rule against seat saving.
In the meatime, game away.
Feb 22, 2010, 2:44 pm
#25
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Danville, CA, USA;
Programs: UA 1MM, WN CP, Marriott LT Plat, Hilton Gold, IC Plat
Posts: 15,709
Epidemic? Talk about hyperbole.
The funny part is that I can't imagine this is a problem for most of the people on this board. Either you are at the head of the line, and get the coveted exit row (assuming a through passenger hasn't snagged it) or you are slightly behind and can get your seat of choice near the front. I'm not any kind of elite and never had a problem getting an aisle seat and saving the rest of the row. It is just not an issue unless you are back in the B or C list. I suppose theoretically somebody could try to save a bunch of aisle seats around him, but I've just never seen it - rather it is someone sitting in the aisle saving the rest of his row.
So I think somebody is making a mountain out of a molehill.
The funny part is that I can't imagine this is a problem for most of the people on this board. Either you are at the head of the line, and get the coveted exit row (assuming a through passenger hasn't snagged it) or you are slightly behind and can get your seat of choice near the front. I'm not any kind of elite and never had a problem getting an aisle seat and saving the rest of the row. It is just not an issue unless you are back in the B or C list. I suppose theoretically somebody could try to save a bunch of aisle seats around him, but I've just never seen it - rather it is someone sitting in the aisle saving the rest of his row.
So I think somebody is making a mountain out of a molehill.
Feb 22, 2010, 3:21 pm
#26
Join Date: Nov 2007
Programs: DL GM, WN AL/CP, UA Silver, Marriott Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 1,483
There is a ridiculous sense of entitlement out there...that someone can save a seat for their own intrests over the intrests of a large group of people who are A list or who have purchased EBCI. It's line cutting, and there is no way around it other than to have a zero tolerance policy.
The fact you fly WN 4 times per week, are A-List, and get mad over seat saving is a head scratcher to me.
But by all means, feel free to give yourself high-blood pressure and ulcers over something that has zero material effect on your life.
Epidemic? Talk about hyperbole.
The funny part is that I can't imagine this is a problem for most of the people on this board. Either you are at the head of the line, and get the coveted exit row (assuming a through passenger hasn't snagged it) or you are slightly behind and can get your seat of choice near the front. I'm not any kind of elite and never had a problem getting an aisle seat and saving the rest of the row. It is just not an issue unless you are back in the B or C list. I suppose theoretically somebody could try to save a bunch of aisle seats around him, but I've just never seen it - rather it is someone sitting in the aisle saving the rest of his row.
So I think somebody is making a mountain out of a molehill.
The funny part is that I can't imagine this is a problem for most of the people on this board. Either you are at the head of the line, and get the coveted exit row (assuming a through passenger hasn't snagged it) or you are slightly behind and can get your seat of choice near the front. I'm not any kind of elite and never had a problem getting an aisle seat and saving the rest of the row. It is just not an issue unless you are back in the B or C list. I suppose theoretically somebody could try to save a bunch of aisle seats around him, but I've just never seen it - rather it is someone sitting in the aisle saving the rest of his row.
So I think somebody is making a mountain out of a molehill.
Feb 22, 2010, 3:43 pm
#27
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: MSP
Programs: Fallen Plats, ex-WN CP, DYKWIW; still a Hilton Diamond & Club Cholula™ R.I.P. Super Plats
Posts: 25,415
I would only get litigious if someone tried to stop me from taking a seat..physically. However, if your wife did not pay for EBCI and I did, you can pony up the 10 dollars I paid to have seat choices ahead of her.
I am not after any particular seat, however if the only remaining aisle seat is occupied by a saver for a pax that is not yet boarded, I am taking it and I am NOT a jerk for taking what I am entitled to. Foisting unreasonable expectations on total strangers is the jerk move. Nobody is under obligation to accomodate you..if they decide to, great. But if they don't they are not jerks.
I am not after any particular seat, however if the only remaining aisle seat is occupied by a saver for a pax that is not yet boarded, I am taking it and I am NOT a jerk for taking what I am entitled to. Foisting unreasonable expectations on total strangers is the jerk move. Nobody is under obligation to accomodate you..if they decide to, great. But if they don't they are not jerks.
The most you can do (without getting yourself in trouble) is to seek the assistance of a flight attendant, who in all likelihood will tell you to sit somewhere else.
Feb 22, 2010, 3:49 pm
#28
Join Date: May 2009
Location: LAX
Programs: AA Gold
Posts: 398
OMG. Don't get me started on that! Elementary school kids suspended because they hugged each other. Student suspended under a zero tolerance weapons policy because he had a 1.5" Lego machine gun.
But let's see if there is a point of agreement on the seat saving issue. Let's go to extremes. One loud student in the first A group comes in a saves all of the exit row seats for his buddies. Other extreme. Toward the back of the plane a timid woman in the B group saves just one seat for her equally soft-spoken husband who is in the C group. The former, I'm just as outraged as you are. The latter, not so much.
But let's see if there is a point of agreement on the seat saving issue. Let's go to extremes. One loud student in the first A group comes in a saves all of the exit row seats for his buddies. Other extreme. Toward the back of the plane a timid woman in the B group saves just one seat for her equally soft-spoken husband who is in the C group. The former, I'm just as outraged as you are. The latter, not so much.
Feb 23, 2010, 10:53 am
#29
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chicago Area
Programs: WN, UA, Marriott, Hilton
Posts: 16
[QUOTE=Boraxo;13440839]Epidemic? Talk about hyperbole.
The funny part is that I can't imagine this is a problem for most of the people on this board. Either you are at the head of the line, and get the coveted exit row...
I agree, but I'm not an A-lister, just a once or twice a month flyer. I don't care by myself, but the one trip a year with my family is a big deal. I can't see myself trying to hold 3 seats for my wife and 2 children, or buying 2 EBCI and making my 10 year old try to save a seat. I will gladly pay the extra $80 to make sure we can sit in consecutive rows.
Maybe I'm on the wrong routes, but I have more problem with the pre-boards. I had one recent flight with 12 pre-boards. My last trip I watched 2 larger women in wheelchairs get out of the chair and walk to McDonalds and come back with "super sized" meals. I fail to understand why they needed extra assistance except to carry the food. Maybe it's time to start charging $20 for pre-boards.
The funny part is that I can't imagine this is a problem for most of the people on this board. Either you are at the head of the line, and get the coveted exit row...
I agree, but I'm not an A-lister, just a once or twice a month flyer. I don't care by myself, but the one trip a year with my family is a big deal. I can't see myself trying to hold 3 seats for my wife and 2 children, or buying 2 EBCI and making my 10 year old try to save a seat. I will gladly pay the extra $80 to make sure we can sit in consecutive rows.
Maybe I'm on the wrong routes, but I have more problem with the pre-boards. I had one recent flight with 12 pre-boards. My last trip I watched 2 larger women in wheelchairs get out of the chair and walk to McDonalds and come back with "super sized" meals. I fail to understand why they needed extra assistance except to carry the food. Maybe it's time to start charging $20 for pre-boards.
Feb 23, 2010, 7:36 pm
#30
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Programs: AS Gold, DL, WN
Posts: 86
But the OP has a point. I have seen it more frequently as well. But not to the point that I would ever get into a confrontation or threaten a lawsuit over someone over it.
