Potential for SAA route to Canada (Toronto)?
Oct 29, 2019, 8:11 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: YYT
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Potential for SAA route to Canada (Toronto)?
I know SAA already flies to both IAD and JFK, but I have always wanted a flight to YYZ from either CPT (ideally) or JNB.
Would AC not consider this because of Star Alliance obligations? As in, this is ACs route if they want it, unless, of course, SAA got prior approval from AC.
Would AC not consider this because of Star Alliance obligations? As in, this is ACs route if they want it, unless, of course, SAA got prior approval from AC.
Oct 30, 2019, 2:03 am
#2
Join Date: Sep 2018
Programs: SAA Voyager, VAA Flying Club, IHG
Posts: 20
Sorry to say, but I think SAA is more likely to fold (and that's highly unlikely) than start a new route to Canada. There is no motive in the organization to launch or expand capacity to North America, probably the only route in the medium turn will be a return to India, nor does SAA have the Capital, willpower or Expertise to deliver a Canadian route at this time.
SAA is perfectly content with it's small AC/UA feed to Canada at IAD and NYC. Don't think AC would be required to provide permission for SA to deliver such a service - but much more likely that we'll see AC offer a small or seasonal service to SA before SAA heads to Canada.
SAA is perfectly content with it's small AC/UA feed to Canada at IAD and NYC. Don't think AC would be required to provide permission for SA to deliver such a service - but much more likely that we'll see AC offer a small or seasonal service to SA before SAA heads to Canada.
Oct 30, 2019, 6:17 am
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2018
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Sorry to say, but I think SAA is more likely to fold (and that's highly unlikely) than start a new route to Canada. There is no motive in the organization to launch or expand capacity to North America, probably the only route in the medium turn will be a return to India, nor does SAA have the Capital, willpower or Expertise to deliver a Canadian route at this time.
SAA is perfectly content with it's small AC/UA feed to Canada at IAD and NYC. Don't think AC would be required to provide permission for SA to deliver such a service - but much more likely that we'll see AC offer a small or seasonal service to SA before SAA heads to Canada.
SAA is perfectly content with it's small AC/UA feed to Canada at IAD and NYC. Don't think AC would be required to provide permission for SA to deliver such a service - but much more likely that we'll see AC offer a small or seasonal service to SA before SAA heads to Canada.
AC wanted to begin flying to Vienna from Toronto, but Austrian Airlines (*A partner) already was flying this route. Austrian ended up shifting to Montreal for its flights to VIE and AC took over the YYZ flights.
Oct 30, 2019, 8:12 am
#4
Join Date: Mar 2016
Programs: AC SE
Posts: 1,501
Air Canada has mentioned a desire to enter the African market—or at least that they are exploring it. Currently they only fly to Morocco, I believe, as a holiday destination. Whether they'd go as far as South Africa, I can't say. I kind of doubt it, to be honest, but that's just opinion.
Oct 30, 2019, 8:16 am
#5
Join Date: Dec 2010
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Programs: UA 1K, BA Gold, LH/SN/LX Senator
Posts: 449
With regards to SAA getting permission from AC, what I meant relates to a similar situation here in Canada that occurred last year.
AC wanted to begin flying to Vienna from Toronto, but Austrian Airlines (*A partner) already was flying this route. Austrian ended up shifting to Montreal for its flights to VIE and AC took over the YYZ flights.
AC wanted to begin flying to Vienna from Toronto, but Austrian Airlines (*A partner) already was flying this route. Austrian ended up shifting to Montreal for its flights to VIE and AC took over the YYZ flights.
Oct 30, 2019, 9:15 am
#6
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2018
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Air Canada has mentioned a desire to enter the African market—or at least that they are exploring it. Currently they only fly to Morocco, I believe, as a holiday destination. Whether they'd go as far as South Africa, I can't say. I kind of doubt it, to be honest, but that's just opinion.
Both UA and DL already fly to SA (with UA commencing this winter).
Is SAAs financial position really that bad? I mean the website alone looks like it was made in the early 2000s, so evidently not much money is available for anything!
Oct 30, 2019, 10:07 am
#7
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: N/A
Programs: UA 1K, BA Gold, LH/SN/LX Senator
Posts: 449
Total Canadian arrivals in South Africa was 67,152 in 2017 and 67,779 in 2018. That's 186 per day on average, but as your say, quite seasonal, 18,624 and 20,782 in Q1 and Q4 2018, but 13,690 and 14,683 in Q2 and Q3, but even in the busiest quarter it's only about 227 per day. The viability of a 3x weekly seasonal flight might be there, but that would require an extraordinarily high yield. Obviously, these data exclude South African originating traffic and Canadians connecting to the Southern African region.
Oct 31, 2019, 2:15 am
#8
Join Date: Sep 2018
Programs: SAA Voyager, VAA Flying Club, IHG
Posts: 20
Don't believe AC would be able to embargo SAA offering any service to Canada. However, as mentioned there is no plan in the near term of service to any additional North American destinations. That said, sure SAA would welcome feed from any AC service to South Africa, where it can route the traffic to it's lucrative pan-africa services.
Oct 31, 2019, 7:15 am
#10
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: N/A
Programs: UA 1K, BA Gold, LH/SN/LX Senator
Posts: 449
It's doable with B77L and likely also B789. Payload would be limited a little, but certainly viable. The route is marginally shorter than DL's ATL-JNB-ATL.
Nov 1, 2019, 3:48 am
#11
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: YYZ/CPH/HRE
Programs: AC 100K, AC 2MM, SAS Diamond, AA P; Avis CM
Posts: 97
I see South Africa as a potentially popular seasonal destination for AC. Other parts of Africa that are already served from YYZ include Ethiopia, Egypt, and of course Morocco as noted above.
Both UA and DL already fly to SA (with UA commencing this winter).
Is SAAs financial position really that bad? I mean the website alone looks like it was made in the early 2000s, so evidently not much money is available for anything!
Both UA and DL already fly to SA (with UA commencing this winter).
Is SAAs financial position really that bad? I mean the website alone looks like it was made in the early 2000s, so evidently not much money is available for anything!
There has been talk off and on of AC picking up a YYZ-JNB route for several years--it's been mentioned in conference calls and in print. I could see that happening on a seasonal basis or on a non-daily service, particularly if they could siphon off some regional US traffic connecting through JFK/IAD (as they have to Europe).
Last edited by YYZHRE; Nov 5, 2019 at 6:50 am Reason: correcting grammar
Nov 2, 2019, 11:33 am
#14
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: BGI (ex-YYC, YYZ)
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The strategy isn't to reduce service. The strategy is to cut on unprofitable routes. The Canada-South Africa niche could be profitable.
Nov 2, 2019, 11:35 am
#15
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: BGI (ex-YYC, YYZ)
Programs: AC*G-E100K (once again)
Posts: 1,701
There is a sizeable Nigerian population in Canada. They can do a stop over in Nigeria plus service canada-nigeria traffic. This is if they can get their diplomatic relations right.
