SAA's financial woes

Old Feb 12, 2020, 6:29 pm
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SA published the schedule change to partners today.

UA was a class act in helping reaccommodate me - I was originally flying GRU-JNB-ADD-XXX, and UA opened up I class inventory on GRU-EWR-LHR inventory so I can fly GRU-EWR-LHR-ADD-XXX instead.
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Old Feb 14, 2020, 10:02 am
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And now there is talk about SAA selling its Heathrow slots to raise some extra money: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...to-raise-funds
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Old Feb 15, 2020, 3:31 am
  #168  
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Originally Posted by TheCanuckian
And now there is talk about SAA selling its Heathrow slots to raise some extra money: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...to-raise-funds
Yes, they 'owned' three slot pairs, but when they discontinued the CPT/LHR/CPT route, they sold one.
Undoubtedly selling a slot pair raises a lot of cash for SAA, but it is exceedingly difficult to get one back as they are seldom for sale (and if they are, the price is sky high). So if they sell one, they kill one LHR rotation more or less forever.
Of course the whole issue may be moot if the airline goes bang in the end. At least then they can sell both pairs to raise some cash to pay off a few creditors....
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Old Feb 15, 2020, 6:39 am
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Originally Posted by thijsseh
Yes, they 'owned' three slot pairs, but when they discontinued the CPT/LHR/CPT route, they sold one.
Undoubtedly selling a slot pair raises a lot of cash for SAA, but it is exceedingly difficult to get one back as they are seldom for sale (and if they are, the price is sky high). So if they sell one, they kill one LHR rotation more or less forever.
Of course the whole issue may be moot if the airline goes bang in the end. At least then they can sell both pairs to raise some cash to pay off a few creditors....
Why did they own three? Did they once have (or dream of having) twice-daily flights between LHR and JNB? I suppose they are now holding on to the second as they dream of reviving the CPT-LHR route?
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Old Feb 15, 2020, 7:13 am
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They ended twice daily only two years ago

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articl...nnesburg-route

Cape town LHR ended 2012

https://centreforaviation.com/analys...d-beyond-75711
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Old Feb 16, 2020, 2:57 am
  #171  
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Originally Posted by crimsona
I was once (almost) a regular on CPT/LHR. It was almost always packed in Y and J, so how they could not make money on that route escapes me.
When they ditched that and made the Voyager programme basically worthless for me (not necessarily for everyone, but certainly for me when the AMEX benefits were seriously cut at more or less the same time). I ditched SAA. Now a very satisfied EK 'addict'.
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Old Feb 16, 2020, 2:46 pm
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Originally Posted by DBCme
On February 29, 2020, SAA will also close the regional and international services from Johannesburg to Sao Paulo.
Originally Posted by dealspoints
JNB-GRU ....
Originally Posted by PVDtoDEL
SA published the schedule change to partners today..

JNB-GRU in March is still for sale on the SA site.
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Old Feb 17, 2020, 3:05 am
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Originally Posted by thijsseh
I was once (almost) a regular on CPT/LHR. It was almost always packed in Y and J, so how they could not make money on that route escapes me.
When they ditched that and made the Voyager programme basically worthless for me (not necessarily for everyone, but certainly for me when the AMEX benefits were seriously cut at more or less the same time). I ditched SAA. Now a very satisfied EK 'addict'.
I highly doubt they ever lost money on that route. Those excellent loads were achieved despite fares that they would have killed for on other routes. It seemed obvious to me at the time that they were selling the family silver because they were desperate for short-term financial gains regardless of the long-term cost.

It was also mooted that for the ANC a welcome political side effect of closing CPT as a European destination would be to do damage to tourism for the Cape - and hence be a blow to the DA government of the province. That seems pretty far fetched to me, but who knows...


I wonder if it would have made sense to fly to Gatwick. Not a *A hub and far fewer possibiliities for connecting traffic but isn't London sustainable on an O&D basis?
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Old Feb 18, 2020, 4:24 am
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Originally Posted by Cheetah_SA
I highly doubt they ever lost money on that route. Those excellent loads were achieved despite fares that they would have killed for on other routes. It seemed obvious to me at the time that they were selling the family silver because they were desperate for short-term financial gains regardless of the long-term cost.
CAPA did some analysis when SAA closed the route and showed that SAA's yields on CPT-LHR-CPT was half that of JNB-PER-JNB and a third less than JNB-LOS-JNB, JNB-ACC-JNB and JNB-BOM-JNB. Given how BOM particularly was burning money it's hard to see that CPT-LHR-CPT was a money spinner given, especially when taking into account the UK APD and aircraft ground time at LHR.

Originally Posted by Cheetah_SA
I wonder if it would have made sense to fly to Gatwick. Not a *A hub and far fewer possibiliities for connecting traffic but isn't London sustainable on an O&D basis?
SAA have not used LHR for connections with the exception of AC and some UA for many years. The UK APD and visa rules made it useless for connections to Europe and Shengen area and they pushed their own North American traffic through JFK and IAD. It's a much higher cost option than their other hubs.
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Old Feb 18, 2020, 10:47 am
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Originally Posted by TheCanuckian
And now there is talk about SAA selling its Heathrow slots to raise some extra money: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...to-raise-funds

I really hope they don't do it soon... I fly next Wednesday (26th) JNB - LHR overnight! If not they have to rebook me on LX? YES PLEASE
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Old Feb 18, 2020, 11:11 am
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Originally Posted by JJarmuth07
I really hope they don't do it soon... I fly next Wednesday (26th) JNB - LHR overnight! If not they have to rebook me on LX? YES PLEASE
Or refund you?
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Old Feb 19, 2020, 2:23 am
  #177  
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Originally Posted by evanb
CAPA did some analysis when SAA closed the route and showed that SAA's yields on CPT-LHR-CPT was half that of JNB-PER-JNB and a third less than JNB-LOS-JNB, JNB-ACC-JNB and JNB-BOM-JNB. Given how BOM particularly was burning money it's hard to see that CPT-LHR-CPT was a money spinner given, especially when taking into account the UK APD and aircraft ground time at LHR.



SAA have not used LHR for connections with the exception of AC and some UA for many years. The UK APD and visa rules made it useless for connections to Europe and Shengen area and they pushed their own North American traffic through JFK and IAD. It's a much higher cost option than their other hubs.
Visa rules yes, but I don't see how APD has anything to do with this. APD is just a (quite hight) 'airport tax', and is even higher when travelling in any cabin higher than the cheapest (i.e. premium economy attracts the same level of APD as first class). It is charged directly by the airline to the passenger. And there is no APD on connections, ensuring that travel to other European countries (and non-European ones for that matter) is not affected by this.
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Old Feb 20, 2020, 11:08 am
  #178  
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Originally Posted by thijsseh
Visa rules yes, but I don't see how APD has anything to do with this. APD is just a (quite hight) 'airport tax', and is even higher when travelling in any cabin higher than the cheapest (i.e. premium economy attracts the same level of APD as first class). It is charged directly by the airline to the passenger. And there is no APD on connections, ensuring that travel to other European countries (and non-European ones for that matter) is not affected by this.
The UK APD is only charged for UK departures. Not for arrivals and not for transits.
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Old Feb 24, 2020, 10:33 am
  #179  
 
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Originally Posted by Cheetah_SA
I wonder if it would have made sense to fly to Gatwick. Not a *A hub and far fewer possibiliities for connecting traffic but isn't London sustainable on an O&D basis?
Nationwide did Gatwick and finished quite quickly? Then again SAA hasn't reached the point of engines falling off...
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Old Feb 25, 2020, 1:49 pm
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Originally Posted by simons1
Nationwide did Gatwick and finished quite quickly? Then again SAA hasn't reached the point of engines falling off...
Though the metaphorical wheels did come off pretty much as soon as Myeni stepped in.
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