Alice11

It looks like some AP equipment has been allocated to the AZ routes to JFK that are in codesharing with DL, for instance DL 8150 (AZ610) on Feb 7, or even better AZ610/DL8150, which is now operated by Air One with a 332.

DL recognizes the flight as operated by AP.

Maybe this could a tricky situation for Skyteam FFs.

transportbiz

Just another sign SkyTeam is dead. SkyTeam is run by Air France and it shows. The reason *A has more airlines and offers more in terms of service, is because they are dedicated to having a dialog with customers. If you have a grievance with a *A flight carrier, there is someone to write to at *A. Just try to write someone at SkyTeam. I did finally find out that a Mr. Leo M. van Wijk is the Chairman of SkyTeam, he also Chairman of the Board of Connekt, as well as a member of the boards of: Martinair, Aegon NV, Randstad Holding NV, ABN ARMO Holding NV and Kennemer Gasthuis. Mr. van Wijk is apparently way too busy to be bothered with even having someone on his staff respond. Of course, the same is true of Jean-Cyril Spinetta who is the Chairman and CEO of Air France-KLM, too busy to reply.
I am very glad CO is leaving ST! Alitalia will eventually leave as well, the writing is on the wall, Lufthansa will buy Alitalia and it end up in *A. At first I was distressed at the prospect of changing to *A, being that I do much prefer to base my travel in Europe in Paris over Frankfurt, I'll cope with that inconvenience. Air Frances' horrible attitude toward customer service not only has a negative impact on the company, but on France in general, since so much of the air service in France is dependent on them. Mottos like "SkyTeam Cares" only get you as far as there is truth in them. If you won't even write a passenger back, how can you say you care?

sbm12

Why would you complain to the alliance rather than the carrier who "wronged" you?

The switch to AP-operated flights is, indeed, interesting. It raises a potential situation of partner-of-partner flights that all of a sudden receive zero credit. That would be very bad. I'm worried about a similar issue but on the *A side, with an AP-coded, UA-operated flight that I'm trying to credit to a *A partner. There is a chance that I will not get credit for that now as AP is part of the company that owns AZ and that potentially makes them a ST partner. That would suck for me.

hfly

Huh? You do know that KL/AF won the battle and effectvely contorls Alitalia and AirOne, don't you?

sbm12

Yes, but AirOne is still in limbo in terms of their relationships with partners. And partners of partners rarely earn points. I cannot imagine that AP is going to not honor tickets that are previously issued on the AP code for UA-operated IAD-FCO, but how point credits are earned will be an interesting thing to see.

It is all in flux right now.

transportbiz

transportbiz

No, I am sorry I did miss that one, I was trying to keep up on it but it went back and forth so many times it became a blur to me.

sbm12

Yeah, I'm still not understanding what the Alliance is supposed to do about the deal for you. I don't think that they owe anyone anything. As you note, the alliance is a marketing thing. That has very little to do with the actual operation of the flights or benefits.

transportbiz

Then its value is meaningless, if they say they only allow airlines to join the alliance that make commitments to service, and then do nothing to oversee those commitments, what's the point?

Another thing is what if the SkyTeam web site or SkyTeam travel desk schedule application is broken or not updated or whatever, which airline is responsible for that?

If one SkyTeam airline fails to recognize the status of a passenger, the airline clearly isn't the one to complain to. If an organization of any kind offers "benefits" to the end user, yes they have an obligation to them. Or why does it exist? It would be totally unnecessary, code sharing and marketing agreements would provide the member airlines the exact same benefits.

If the Alliance has no involvement in the perfomance of its members, it's completely worthless. Any member airline could just refuse to offer reward seats or do any other "violation" to the terms of their agreement. What's the point?

My point is because ST doesn't enforce its members agreements, doesn't interact with the end user at all, doesn't do anything really, then yes it is useless.

sbm12

I certainly will not argue with you about the relative value of the ST alliance versus the others. I'm not convinced that the alliance is responsible for babysitting its members as it really is just a marketing shtick, at least in ST's case, but I would still deal with most of the issues you've noted below directly with the airlines. I guess that's just me.

transportbiz

So would I, if the airline in question would even respond! If the airline can't govern its members to the commitments they made, what purpose does the alliance and its commitments serve? What I do need is an alliance that lives up it's commitment of consistant service between carriers. Or don't call yourself an Alliance at all.