flyerCO

I would say AZ. Etihad bought a good portion of them, and is really the only reason AZ is still flying.

irishguy28

UA Fan

Would VS be next in light of today's AF-KLM and VS JV and purchase of 31% stake ?

Goldorak

would make a lot of sense IMO.

Calchas

I am sceptical. Membership of an alliance is not free---either in terms of the annual fee, or in terms of the restrictions and costs it can impose.

VS is not really a network carrier. It has no short haul operation. Aside from some North American feed from Delta, it does not predicate its business on connecting traffic. It does not seek a reputation as a global, integrated player. Instead it operates on a small number of high yield dense longhaul routes out of LHR.

It is building local relations, with Delta, and now AF and KL. It will extend frequent flier benefits to these flyers.

What does it gain from Sky Team membership?

Goldorak

The same gains as the other airlines member of an alliance, mainly:
- a very large new customer base who will not hesitate to book on VS because of Skyteam frequent flyer benefits
- increase the loyalty of VS pax because of a large alliance membership and reciprocal benefits

Calchas

My argument is that unlike a large network carrier, VS would not see significant benefits from that large customer base.

From this very large customer base, we need to subtract all SkyMiles and Flying Blue passengers who will already be covered under the reciprocal arrangement with VS.

Then I would say, look at the destinations that VS serves today. The only one of those that is a hub for a SkyTeam player (excluding DL/AF/KL) is PVG. The bulk of its network is focused in the United States or its satellites where a clear majority of Sky Team travellers are likely to be SkyMiles members.

Of course ST members of all programmes are found everywhere. But in enough numbers to justify the cost of joining?

It just seems a bit nebulous.

MSPeconomist

Would LHR-ICN be a reasonable route for VS? That would lead to the KE customers as well as good routes with good service throughout Asia, although at the cost of routing people somewhat out of the way for much of Asia.

bennos

I agree with you in principle, but there are some interesting tidbits floating in the DL forum thread on this topic:

• A rumor that VS will gain access to all SkyTeam lounges (which seems to imply a SkyTeam tie up of some form)
• A presentation from AFKL on the benefits in investing in VS

irishguy28

DL has said it is rolling both its TATL immunised joint ventures into one.

The reason they didn't roll VS into the existing JV was because that would have had to mean VS joining Skyteam [and sharing revenues with AFKL and AZ].

(Just as Aer Lingus cannot join the oneworld immuised TATL JV until it is back in oneworld, so too will VS be unable to join the existing Skyteam TATL JV until it joins Skyteam. It seems unlikely that the competition authorities on either side of the Atlantic would want to break with the "custom" of having a multi-airline JV that is not alliance-bound).

Now it seems that they can no longer prevent this from happening.

irishguy28

Indeed, with an AFKL hand on the tiller, the drift towards North America since DL effectively took over could be ameliorated.

[Not saying that ICN would be a great VS destination - BA appear to have had trouble with the route - but there are more options to explore for an LHR-based airline than just across the Atlantic (even if the name justifies the focus!)]

irishguy28

Given that 9W is rumoured to be looking to sell a stake to a new partner, and given that AFKL/DL have gone to great lengths to court it and draw it away from its BRU hub - Etihad wanted it to relocate to DUS and partner with Air Berlin - there could be a case for saying that 9W may soon be in Skyteam, too.

N830MH

Still no new Skyteam member for this year? Any news on this?

irishguy28

It is four years since any new airlines joined Skyteam. If you expect that an airline joins every year - or even just this year - you will be disappointed.

If anything, Skyteam is more likely to lose a member before it signs up a new one.

criced

But you can almost say JOON is a new member this year, unoficially 😉