KLM vs SU longhaul C question
 

I am planning to redeem NW points for a business class ticket next June to Bishkek (FRU)

The options right now with available seats for my dates are

YYZ-SVO-FRU - all on SU
Aircraft is 767/320
YYZ-AMS on KL 777 then -SVO-FRU(SU) on A320s

Any preferences around here. How does SU 767 business class compare to the combo of KL 777 + SU A320 ??

The first option has a 12 hour layover in Moscow, so it will require a $55 transit visa and I'd get to go into town (havent been to Moscow since 2002).
Its also a longer overnight flight, and saves about $25 in AMS taxes.

The second option is a later departure (10:20pm vs 7:50pm), and has only a short time (4 hours) at SVO (which by that time hopefully will be SVO3), but it would mean 2 redeyes in a row.

Which one would you choose?

Just flew DXB-SVO-YYZ in J a couple of weeks ago. And have flown the KL AMS-YYZ in J plenty as well.

If you fly SU, DEFINITELY invest the $55 for the visa, as SVO airport is a total yawner and the 'lounge' was like being at one of high school parties in the basement of my house. Lots of smoke, cheap booze, junk food, 70s furniture; instead of Mom and Dad not being home, the lounge attendants were essentially not home (ie- no service, no checking on food/bev ffor refills or cleaning. AMS blows away SVO if you plan on being an airport loiterer1

Onboard, SU's Digiplayer has a WOEFUL set of choices, both in terms of quality and quantity. SU Has the AA new J class seat, which is 'lie slant' ;)
fine for me. Food was a toss-up, both KL and SU are a shade above average. Onboard service was also pretty similar.

Hope that helps.

One'd hope T3 at SVO will have opened by next June.

I laughed out loud at this description. ^

Choose SU. Its definetly the better option.

I find the SU 767 seats better than KLM and also the load factor in J on SU is less in comparison to KLM so the service shall be better too.

I fly SVO - FRU quiet often & they have A321 now a days however do not know about June 2009.

The SVO T3 will be ready & working latest by March 2009 & I have seen the blue prints of the project and can say the lounge's are going to be much better because they are going all out to be better than DME.

For short haul C SU is definitely better then KL, by far. For long-haul though, I wouldn't say its much better, I think SU and KL are pretty comparable for longhaul C, with a few exceptions:

SVO T2 is an awful pit, compared to AMS (however, have to disagree with another poster on the lounge: SVO lounge, while dark with old furniture, is a non-smoking facility, so it doesn't smell like smoke, also the food/booze options are different from KL lounge in AMS in a sense thats its more "Russian" oriented, i.e. open faced sandwiched, meat and cabbage filled pastries, lots more dessert options. Also, cups are plastic at SVO lounge vs. glass in AMS, but overall AMS lounge is light years away compared to SVO one, until SVOT3 opens next year).

SU onboard service for longhaul is very good, but so is KL's. SU offers anything you want to drink for pre-departure, while KL just has standard OJ/water/champs/beer. Service is very comparable, and so are the seats. KL, however, has their Delft houses, which I am a sucker for.

Bottomline: for longhaul C: SU=KL
for shorthaul C: SU>KL by far (like comparing a flying chicken coup (KL) to a real Business class experience (SU)

Thanks for all the replies
Good to hear thats the bottom line, its what I m leaning towards.

YYZ-AMS - KL - 777 22:50 departure, 7:30 flight time, just enough to eat and sleep, 2 hour connection at AMS, then SU to SVO, 4 hours there, and on to FRU.

The other option with the 12 hour layover at SVO on an all-SU itinerary did save $30 in AMS taxes, but I was unlikely to spend the time at the airport, and saves me driving to the consulate and the $55 for a transit visa.


Does one really get a shoehorn in a SU amenity kit???

Yes.

Forgive our pessimism but we're inclined to think June is more likely.

This if the first word we've heard of a lounge at SVO3 though. Will it be a Sky Team Lounge only? Will SU have anything unique for their elites beyond the ST lounge? Many of us are most curious...

Would love to disclose the info but can not because of my contractual obligations. Guess this info would come out sooner rather than later from other sources on FT.

But can confirm off the record that there will be 3 Lounges that will have only to do with SU or SKYTEAM. Rest you can guess.

As far as the timings are concerned I am aware that the trial flights will be handled by T3 in the 1 week of March. Am not aware of the exact formal launch date but believe it will be March end Or April for sure.

Cheers

apoivre? asnovici? Me thinks a new voice of hope has emerged among us and their name is ELITEGOLDTRAVELLER. This is about as geeked as I've been regarding T3 since, well, about the late 90's when I first heard about it. So, from what you say above there might be a choice of 3 lounges for us ST Elite Plusses to choose from? I've got SU Silver in the bag for next year and could get Gold if I thought it was worth it. Off the record, can you comment as to whether being SU GOLD would give me a lounge option that being ST Elite Plus would not? I'd love to know if you can and care to share.

And...many thanks!!!

Well, SU giveth... They could always take lounge access on domestic itins away from non-SU Golds (like they took it away from non-SU Silvers)...

Otherwise I see no point in staying with SU Bonus at all (if we are indeed heading towards cross-alliance upgrades as the case seems to be). Living in Moscow, I could always use a cheap J award to Germany or Cuba - but why would you bother?

IF we get that cross alliance upgrade goodie then it makes no sense to go for Gold absolutely BUT until that time I hoard all the SU miles I can for the single purpose of upgrading my beloved Q fares to Business Class. Getting 100% bonuses instead of 25% would help a lot. Sometimes, when traveling with the family, the extra baggage allowance might come in handy. The main for me though is getting me out of the back of the plane and into the forward cabin.

Mate for this I will check with my colleague in MOW and confirm back for sure.

However if your business takes you to Russia and you need to fly domestic in Russia as well then having SU GOLD will make lot of sense.

Thank you!!!!!

It does, I do, and I will!

The information about 3 lounges is actually available on aeroflot.ru under Business Class section. Here is what it says about lounges in SVO3:

Международный Зал ожидания/ SkyTeam - 557 m2
Международный Зал ожидания - 548 m2
Зал ожидания на местные рейсы - 432 m2

Translation: one common SkyTeam lounge, area of 557 square meters; one other lounge (presumable for non-SkyTeam airlines, however I thought only ST airlines would be using SVO3?), area of 548 square meters, and one lounge for domestic flights, area of 432 square meters.

To be honest, I would love to share the optimism of ELITEGOLDTRAVELLER but as we know how things are done in Russia, June sounds much more realistic. From the looks of SVO3 the way it is now, I would be VERY surprised that March opening is possible, even June one looks rather optimistic at this point.

Glad to know we have the largest zal at least. That's for sure good.

I always forget to check the Russian version of Aeroflot.ru. It's obviously stacked with goodies that the English version does not have.

Still thinking June, eh? I can't help but do the same though ELITEGOLDTRAVELLER has piqued my interest for sure.

Mate thanks for your interest. Could not get back earlier as we were celebrating DIWALI festival in India and then had to fly to SVO. Checked just a few moments ago with my colleagues here in MOW.

Yes 1 business zal budit only for passengers flying J with SU or for SU GOLD ELITE so take that SU GOLD because you will need it for sure. And yes this zal will have shower facilities etc so you can expect many many goodies.

The trial flights are supposed to be in the last week on March for sure & and actually am very much aware which flights are going to be handled first on the trail basis.

But then in today's world when crude become's $ 65 from $ 145 in 59 days then the word planning does start to become more of text book stuff than real life.

However will keep you guys posted on the matter as & when any positive or negative developments take place.

So, one lounge will be for SU J and SU Gold only, not for ST Elite Plus from other programs? And its going to be at around the same size at the other lounge for all other passengers? No other airline in no other alliance has such setup (exception being LH FC Terminal in FRA, but the comparison here is hardly equitable), I am sure SU will not deviate from the standards that have been established. Plus, there just aren't that many SU J and SU Gold pax on a daily basis to justify the existence of a whole sizeable lounge just to support that category. I find it VERY hard to believe, if that's what ELITEGOLDTRAVELLER meant by what he wrote. Not knowing where ELITEGOLDTRAVELLER gets his info, I am going to be quite sceptical.

I predict: 1 lounge for all ST J and Elite Plus pax, one lounge for other airlines pax, and one lounge for all airlines on the domestic side.

In terms of test flights at the end of March... I just say "lets wait and see". Maybe they will have a few flights departing from there, but not arriving, and vice versa, think Yerevan airport for a while, but the terminal itself will not be open until June at the earliest (if that), IMHO.

I haven't been to the *G lounges at SIN but the new Kris lounges in Terminal 3 (both J and F) are quite big - and are for SQ pax only.

Come to think of it, won't the majority of J pax at SVO be travelling on SU anyway? They will have more business class seats per day than the rest of ST combined so I'm not surprised at the way they are trying to keep the riff raff out :p

J on SU is almost never full, now lets take a look at KL J cabins with even middle seats occupied :p

True, most J pax will be on SU, but not enough to warrant their own lounge, look at DATE lounge today, small and handles everyone. Also, traffic at SVO on SU is not comparable to SQ traffic in SIN.

I remain thinking that ST lounge will be for all ST Elite Plus and J pax, not just for SU.

Sounds reasonable, if the arrival time is the same. You will also be able to collect two shoehorns from SU (AMS-SVO and SVO-FRU). The SU short-haul J seats on the Airbii are quite comfortable, IMHO. Not as good as long-haul, and I have not yet tried BD mid-haul J, but better than any of the competition.

Slightly OT but quite a few people on Flyertalk seem to be infatuated with SU shoehorns these days. Is it some new secret cult? :confused:

If so, I have a large stock of unused SU shoehorns that I can make available for sale.:p

Blasphemy. You're probably supposed to worship them not sell them. Or sacrifice them to the little gremlins running Aeroflot's online booking engine :D

March is here, where is SVO3?
 

So March is here, and people on this forum have speculated that domestic flights will start from SVO3 in March. Where are they? I have not heard anything about SVO3 lately, and it doesn't look like it will open anytime soon, just as I predicted. Does anyone have any new information?

Terminal 3 is now supposed to open later in the year (along with Terminal2A). (I thought I posted an update in the main thread in the Russia forum :confused:)

SVO3 Update First Hand
 

Hi Mates,

Some problems with SVO3. Money has not been paid to major parties involved for the last 2 months including the company for whom I do technical consultations. So work is on a go slow basis at the moment.

Now here comes the real problem actually. The problem has to do with the technical aspect of the land on which SVO3 has been built. Can not go any further as this would put me in trouble. I am sure you guys in MOW will find about about it yourself sooner rather than later. If this problem is not solved then SVO3 will be delayed for quiet some time. A lot of people around the world are working at this moment to find the solution and as per our last update the info is that the solution is nearby. Lets see.

Will keep you all updated.

Cheers

Isnt SVO3 built on the same land in terms of terrain and structure as SVO2 and SVO1? Its not a new runway, afterwards, and I have never heard of any issues with it.

Bottomline: as predicted SVO3 is not going to operate for quite some time, as confirmed by apoivre's post.