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SkyTeam Falling Further Behind Star

SkyTeam Falling Further Behind Star

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Old Jun 1, 02, 6:16 am
  #1  
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SkyTeam Falling Further Behind Star

Star Alliance has just added three new airlines to its already impressive roster: Asiana, LOT and Spanair. SkyTeam keeps falling further back in the alliance game, IMO.

Spanair would have been a great codeshare partner for DL and AeroMexico. Codeshares to various Spanair destinations could have been possible from the feed from DL's BCN and MAD flights as well as AM flights to MAD.

Hopefully. something will come of the speculation about TG and/or JA joining SkyTeam.

Am I correct in assuming that similar to SkyTeam, any flight on a * member carrier counts towards elite status?
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Old Jun 1, 02, 11:41 am
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Miles earned on both *A and OW are elite qualifying...

DL is really in a lousy position as far as alliances, especially in Asia, are concerned. Air China was suppossed to be signed up shortly, but last weeks crash put them off again. KE is a full member again, but they have also had safety problems in the past.

At the same time, the lack of recognition in using other partner airlines' lounges for those less that DL Plat. is embarrassing. Both OW and *A give lounge priviledges to int'l flights on partners to 2nd tier members and not just their top members.
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Old Jun 1, 02, 3:34 pm
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">

Spanair would have been a great codeshare partner for DL and AeroMexico. Codeshares to various Spanair destinations could have been possible from the feed from DL's BCN and MAD flights as well as AM flights to MAD.

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Since Spainair is controlloed by SAS (a Star member), it wouldn't make sense for them to join other alliances than Star.

I agree that SkyTeam need to add some more Asian members. Thai or JAL would be great.
Also the South Pacific would be great, but which airlines are left there?
A partner in South American could be beneficial, so you do more inter continent flights.
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Old Jun 1, 02, 3:41 pm
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What's up with SkyTeam's tendency to associate with/attract the world's most dangerous carriers? SU, KE, and CI all in one alliance??? What the hell was DL/AF thinking?!

It appears SkyTeam is taking a "Wings" approach: do nothing but interline the carriers you already have and hope to god that there'll still be someone left once you're done with that. One(HeathroW)orld seems to be taking that approach as well. Star is grab-now-ask-later, and it's gotten some **** good carriers with very few mistakes in between as a result.

Why is there so much speculation for TG in SkyTeam. True that it's the one alliance where they'll actually be NEEDED and held in highest regard, as opposed to being second-rate in Star; but LH is not going to let them go quietly, and from the looks of it... they'd rather be 2nd rate in a great alliance than worshipped in a pitiful one.

One positive note for SkyTeam out of this is that Star just set a precedent for having members at both NRT and ICN. If SkyTeam really can woo JAL, which I hope/doubt they can, then that'd be great for the alliance.


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Old Jun 2, 02, 3:34 am
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ConcordeBoy:
What's up with SkyTeam's tendency to associate with/attract the world's most dangerous carriers? SU, KE, and CI all in one alliance??? What the hell was DL/AF thinking?!

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It is very sad ... DL was all set with SQ and SR but then AF insisted that it all end. SQ reluctantly joined Star ... TG is not viable in Star with SQ there, hence the repeated rumours. Now that ANA has joined Star, it means JAL must join Oneworld or Skyteam. They have close ties to AA, giving Skyteam the edge (and KE hates JAL, wonder if KE has blackball rights?). Right now it looks like JAL and ANZ will join Oneworld, which would make Oneworld far better than Skyteam or Star in coverage. Quite frankly Skyteam's time has come and gone, it just isn't viable. Very sad, and it came close, but in the current form it just does not work as a world-wide alliance. It is fine for Europe and NA, but there it ends. The irony is that DL was ahead of the curve, and now is left in the dust. Best I can tell (I don't have any inside info) it isn't Delta's fault, they were the victims of the unreasonable actions and machinations of others. But the damage is telling, this year I am spending $100K on travel with AA that would have been on DL, but for the shambles that is Skyteam. And I have to say that I am getting better service for it.

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Old Jun 2, 02, 12:46 pm
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Out of curiousity, when was Skyteam even considered to be close to *A or OW? I have always considered it to be a second tier alliance.

[This message has been edited by Rssrsvp (edited 06-02-2002).]
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Old Jun 2, 02, 3:34 pm
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Rssrsvp:
Out of curiousity, when was Skyteam even considered to be close to *A or OW? I have always considered it to be a second tier alliance.

[This message has been edited by Rssrsvp (edited 06-02-2002).]
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SkyTeam has never been close to the others either in terms of capability or in terms of seamless service. But we can always keep hoping, can't we?



[This message has been edited by RobertS975 (edited 06-02-2002).]
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Old Jun 2, 02, 3:39 pm
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Old Jun 2, 02, 3:46 pm
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Rssrsvp:
Out of curiousity, when was Skyteam even considered to be close to *A or OW? I have always considered it to be a second tier alliance.

[This message has been edited by Rssrsvp (edited 06-02-2002).]
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Before Oneworld and Skyteam existed there was an "almost" Skyteam constructed by DL/SQ/SR with many of the alliance characteristics (this was circa 1995). That alliance was very effective though it was informal (and didn't include base miles on other carriers). Skyteam has been downhill ever since, though SQ is unhappy with Star and there is some chance it will quit Star and join Skyteam (no chance to join Oneworld due to CX). Skyteam with two changes -- adding JAL and SQ -- would become a very powerful and maybe even dominant alliance. And DL keeps the rumour of buying CO alive, maybe it will happen (which might pick up VS codeshares ... once again ... DL had VS as a partner in 1995, also!).
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Old Jun 2, 02, 4:00 pm
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number_6:

Step 1: Delta Buys Continental (or vice versa, if that's how it has to be)

Step 2: JFK closed in favor of EWR; CLE closed in favor of CVG; DFW closed in favor of IAH

Step 3: DAL + CAL = DAL - $2 billion

Step 4: Duh?

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Old Jun 2, 02, 6:34 pm
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Number 6, I agree that ST can turn things around dramatically in a hurry. I haven't heard the SQ rumors previous to your post. Most rumors centered on Thai leaving to join ST.
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Old Jun 2, 02, 9:46 pm
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by RobertS975:
Number 6, I agree that ST can turn things around dramatically in a hurry. I haven't heard the SQ rumors previous to your post. Most rumors centered on Thai leaving to join ST. </font>
And that's nothing to sneeze at, Thai is no joke! With no governmental hassle (of which I can see none impending); and the proper feed, retiming, and perhaps ATI... SkyTeam could QUICKLY become a force in Asia. They need to forget and get as far away as possible from CI. Having CZ positioned to grant access to mainland China wouldnt hurt at all. TG for int'l, CZ for intra-Asia. That'd be sweet.

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Old Jun 2, 02, 9:55 pm
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by RobertS975:
SkyTeam has never been close to the others either in terms of capability or in terms of seamless service. But we can always keep hoping, can't we?</font>

OneHeathroWorld is by far the WORST alliance for lack of seamless service in existence. Not to mention $#!tty FFP integration.

If you compare their fact sheets, for being a year younger and 2 carriers smaller; SkyTeam has actually done a remarkable job of nipping at OneWorld's heels. I think the gap is widening though

http://skyteam.com/EN/aboutSkyteam/doc/fact_sheet.doc

http://www.oneworld.com/pressroom/se...s/F000b501.doc

[This message has been edited by ConcordeBoy (edited 06-02-2002).]
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Old Jun 2, 02, 10:01 pm
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by number_6:

It is very sad ... DL was all set with SQ and SR but then AF insisted that it all end. SQ reluctantly joined Star ...

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You do a good job of making SQ look like a victim.... what REALLY went down was the fact that SQ wanted to purchase more of a stake/interests in DL than the USA gov't was comfortable with. So they high-tailed to other partnerships. DL (wisely!) jilted SR for AF, which proved to be the best decision in the longrun.
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Old Jun 2, 02, 10:21 pm
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ConcordeBoy:
And that's nothing to sneeze at, Thai is no joke! </font>
The Prime Minister of Thailand doesn't agree with you, he has been quoted repeatedly in the press with critical comments about TG. Of course having a TG plane explode shortly before he was to board it might affect his comments. Mr Thaksin made clear his feelings in May when he said the airline "sucks" and that if he had any choice he would not fly with it. The prime minister slammed Thai Airways International for its high ticket prices, uncomfortable seats and poor service.

The airline's top executive agreed with him, saying improvement were needed.

On second thought, that should put them at the top of Skyteam's list.

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