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-   -   SkyTeam announce UX, KQ, CM, RO entry as Associate airline (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/skyteam/441614-skyteam-announce-ux-kq-cm-ro-entry-associate-airline.html)

jimyvr Jun 9, 05 8:18 am

SkyTeam announce UX, KQ, CM, RO entry as Associate airline
 
SkyTeam announced Air Europa, Kenya Airways, COPA, TAROM will join SkyTeam in the next 12 months as Associate airline of SkyTeam.

Four Carriers to Join SkyTeam

woody125 Jun 9, 05 9:40 am

Not Impressed
 
I guess this is the path of all future alliance growth as all the "good" airlines are taken. Looking at some of their websites, one qualification will be, I hope, an English version.

Definitely, a ho hum announcement in my book.

Mr. DeMucho Jun 9, 05 1:56 pm

Still no South American airline in SkyTeam. I was pretty confident that TAM would be one of the four new associate airlines, given the alliances with KLM & Air France. Disappointing. :td:

samsonyuen Jun 9, 05 4:04 pm

So what are the timeframes for these associate airlines to enter the alliance? What are the differences between Associate Airlines? I would've thought KQ could've been a full-fledged alliance partner, no? COPA too! I guess with Star Alliance having two, SkyTeam can now trump it and have double the number!

graraps Jun 9, 05 4:46 pm


Originally Posted by woody125
I guess this is the path of all future alliance growth as all the "good" airlines are taken. Looking at some of their websites, one qualification will be, I hope, an English version.
Definitely, a ho hum announcement in my book.

??
IMHO it's a rather decent bunch of airlines. KQ is a great addition to Skyteam, and UX opens up the Spanish regions and more flights to S. America. The other two aren't heavyweights, but bad airlines they are not.
But the absence of MH and a South American airline are serious gaps that need to be plugged. Now.

magyarflieger Jun 10, 05 9:34 am


Originally Posted by samsonyuen
So what are the timeframes for these associate airlines to enter the alliance? What are the differences between Associate Airlines? I would've thought KQ could've been a full-fledged alliance partner, no? COPA too! I guess with Star Alliance having two, SkyTeam can now trump it and have double the number!

It looks like the individual airlines join a full member's FFP, and that carrier helps bring them into the alliance. But I agree, some of these carriers seem a bit large for this. Especially when you look at Blue1, Adria and Croatia Air (*A's regional members). They are all very small and serve a particular region and that region only. COPA makes sense as they were already a OnePass partner, but KQ still puzzles me. Either way, more options and more destinations for SkyTeam can only be good.

apoivre Jun 10, 05 10:31 am


Originally Posted by magyarflieger
It looks like the individual airlines join a full member's FFP, and that carrier helps bring them into the alliance. ...... COPA makes sense as they were already a OnePass partner, but KQ still puzzles me.

CM already uses OnePass as it very own FFP, and KQ used KLM's Flying Dutchman and switched to the joint (KL-AF) Flying Blue alongside with KLM. What exactly puzzles you about KQ?

seoulmanjr Jun 10, 05 10:55 am

FYI - Interesting debate on the merits of each in the DL forum if you're interested:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=441658

peace,
~Ben~

samsonyuen Jun 10, 05 11:51 am

I wonder if associate airlines can go into full-fledged airline after a proving period. Kenya definitely should be. I'm not sure about Air Europa, the third-biggest airline in Spain (Iberia in oneworld and Spanair in Star Alliance), or TAROM, maybe COPA.

Venturello Jun 10, 05 1:21 pm

UX is a great addition for me. From my base in BCN it opens many possibilities, and its a decent airline that's growing very fast with new international routes (example, to China direct in 2006, etc).

NickB Jun 10, 05 4:23 pm

Smaller airlines are likely to remain associate rather than full-blown partners as it means lower costs for them. KQ and CM are definitely useful additions. Not so sure about RO. As to UX, it will depend on which classes are eligible for earning. I would suspect that the lower fares will not eligible (similar to JK in *A), which would substantially diminish the usefulness of UX as a partner. I seem to recall that earning on UX was pretty limited under the KL FD scheme.

ewj Jun 12, 05 7:31 am


Originally Posted by NickB
Smaller airlines are likely to remain associate rather than full-blown partners as it means lower costs for them. KQ and CM are definitely useful additions. Not so sure about RO. As to UX, it will depend on which classes are eligible for earning. I would suspect that the lower fares will not eligible (similar to JK in *A), which would substantially diminish the usefulness of UX as a partner. I seem to recall that earning on UX was pretty limited under the KL FD scheme.


Could you explain the cost differential? How would it be cheaper?

NickB Jun 12, 05 8:46 am


Originally Posted by ewj
Could you explain the cost differential? How would it be cheaper?

The original press release is no longer available on the skyteam website, but you can find it reproduced here. As I understand it, the requirements for associate membership (in terms of service standards, IT integration, etc...) are less for associate members. Presumably, ST marketing costs are also primarily borne by full members. Whether the lower costs outweigh the absence of voting rights on the ST board is open to question. Interestingly, the fact that ST would only offer MA associate membership, against full membership in OW, was one of the factors pushing MA to go for OW rather than ST (see here).

AeroDD Jul 4, 05 12:36 am


Originally Posted by magyarflieger
It looks like the individual airlines join a full member's FFP, and that carrier helps bring them into the alliance.

Based on the SkyTeam press release, I agree with your statement. The press release lists their individual sponsors:


The Associate - Sponsor airlines are :

* Air Europa - Air France
* Copa Airlines - Continental Airlines
* Kenya Airways - KLM Royal Dutch Airlines
* Tarom - Alitalia
So since Copa is already a part of OnePass, and Kenya is already a part of Flying Dutchman/Flying Blue, does it seem to be a reasonable assumption from this list that Air Europa will adopt Flying Blue and Tarom will adopt MilleMiglia?

NickB Jul 4, 05 5:02 am


Originally Posted by AeroDD
Based on the SkyTeam press release, I agree with your statement. The press release lists their individual sponsors:



So since Copa is already a part of OnePass, and Kenya is already a part of Flying Dutchman/Flying Blue, does it seem to be a reasonable assumption from this list that Air Europa will adopt Flying Blue and Tarom will adopt MilleMiglia?

Not necessarily. It may make sense for Air Europa to stay independent, FFP-wise, in particular if they want to co-operate with Latin American airlines (such as Aeropostal) outside ST,


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