SkyTeam Elite Treatment
Jun 2, 2002, 3:03 pm
#1
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SkyTeam Elite Treatment
Over on the DL and AF boards, there appears to have been numerous problems encountered by DL elites flying AF metal. I am curious as to how DL elites are treated when flying other SkyTeam partners - Alitalia, Korean Air, Aeromexico, Czech Air. Also, how about elites on these other airlines, including AF, and the treatment they receive on DL and each other.
Jun 2, 2002, 4:04 pm
#2
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by FTraveler:
Over on the DL and AF boards, there appears to have been numerous problems encountered by DL elites flying AF metal. I am curious as to how DL elites are treated when flying other SkyTeam partners - Alitalia, Korean Air, Aeromexico, Czech Air. Also, how about elites on these other airlines, including AF, and the treatment they receive on DL and each other.</font>
Over on the DL and AF boards, there appears to have been numerous problems encountered by DL elites flying AF metal. I am curious as to how DL elites are treated when flying other SkyTeam partners - Alitalia, Korean Air, Aeromexico, Czech Air. Also, how about elites on these other airlines, including AF, and the treatment they receive on DL and each other.</font>
In contrast, AF with a *purchased* F ticket refused entry to the F lounge at CDG and it took intervention by a supervisor to get the F lounge access -- for a full fare F ticket! There was no apology for this shoddy treatment ... and I haven't flown AF since then (so this was a very expensive behaviour on their part). I shudder to think how a mere PM is treated by AF if they don't even value their own customers! And the F lounge in CDG isn't that special, hardly worth protecting.
Skyteam seems to be disfunctional when it comes to cross-airline privileges.
Jun 2, 2002, 6:11 pm
#3
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Several months back, I was at the B/E lounge at ATL on my way to Europe. At the counter was an AF Frequence Plus Rouge member (AF top tier) who was visibly upset at being denied access to the B/E lounge.
The agent informed him that a B/E boarding pass, not status, was necessary for entry into the lounge and directed him to the adjacent CRC.
He told her that since AF allows DL's top elites to access the AF business lounge at CDG with a Y ticket, why doesn't DL allow AF top elites with Y tickets access to DL's business lounge. I can understand his logic somewhat.
Perhaps AF top tier elites are grumbling to AF staff who in turn are purposely giving DL elites a hard time in a tit-for-tat.
The agent informed him that a B/E boarding pass, not status, was necessary for entry into the lounge and directed him to the adjacent CRC.
He told her that since AF allows DL's top elites to access the AF business lounge at CDG with a Y ticket, why doesn't DL allow AF top elites with Y tickets access to DL's business lounge. I can understand his logic somewhat.
Perhaps AF top tier elites are grumbling to AF staff who in turn are purposely giving DL elites a hard time in a tit-for-tat.
Jun 2, 2002, 8:13 pm
#4
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That's apples and oranges. AF business CLASS lounges are for those flying BUSINESS CLASS. They have no CRC type lounge or (paid) membership programme. For that matter CRC members are not supposed to be using BizElite lounges either.
All CRC's in ATL are superior to EVERY AF Business lounge in CDG, plain and simple. The problem experienced by DL PM's has been that AF personnel were not ever letting them into any lounge whatsoever.
I highly doubt that tit for tat had anything to do with this for 3 reasons:
1) They have been doing this since day one of the alliance, even before Skyteam had a name. The AF people on the ground and in many places have still not had it.
2) AF was about four months late in informing their top elites that they had privilages.
3) AF doesn't generally care about service for their own customers, French or otherwise, so I really doubt that they would factor this in.
All CRC's in ATL are superior to EVERY AF Business lounge in CDG, plain and simple. The problem experienced by DL PM's has been that AF personnel were not ever letting them into any lounge whatsoever.
I highly doubt that tit for tat had anything to do with this for 3 reasons:
1) They have been doing this since day one of the alliance, even before Skyteam had a name. The AF people on the ground and in many places have still not had it.
2) AF was about four months late in informing their top elites that they had privilages.
3) AF doesn't generally care about service for their own customers, French or otherwise, so I really doubt that they would factor this in.
Jun 2, 2002, 9:59 pm
#5
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I had no problems getting into the AF business lounges in Berlin and Paris with my PM/CRC card. The staff first looked up the kinds of acceptable lounge cards in a loose-leaf folder, and there was the DL card!
I've always been well treated on AF, even when on a DL ticket, in business, on the Concorde, and in Y class. I never had the impression that their staff were treating me any better or worse than an AF member. They put all business-class passengers in the same hotel when a flight was cancelled, gave us all first-class amenities kits when baggage was not on the same plane, gave me the seats I requested when making reservations, and were even unfailingly polite and pleasant (yes, even that!). Their customer service office in Florida answers complaints quickly and even offers vouchers for future travel when there is a problem.
KE treated me very well as a DL PM in their business lounges, at the gate and on board, albeit while on a DL-issued Skyteam, business, round-the-world ticket. Ditto with Aeromexico.
I've always been well treated on AF, even when on a DL ticket, in business, on the Concorde, and in Y class. I never had the impression that their staff were treating me any better or worse than an AF member. They put all business-class passengers in the same hotel when a flight was cancelled, gave us all first-class amenities kits when baggage was not on the same plane, gave me the seats I requested when making reservations, and were even unfailingly polite and pleasant (yes, even that!). Their customer service office in Florida answers complaints quickly and even offers vouchers for future travel when there is a problem.
KE treated me very well as a DL PM in their business lounges, at the gate and on board, albeit while on a DL-issued Skyteam, business, round-the-world ticket. Ditto with Aeromexico.
Jun 3, 2002, 2:00 am
#6
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[quote]<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by number_6:
Six, you got hosed. In January I was flying steerage on AF (alternative was F...and a second mortgage on my house), connecting through CDG. On the outbound leg, the AF gate guard quickly found the Elite Plus logo on my PM card, and welcomed me to the lounge (and France, for that matter.) On the return leg, a different gal in that "down the escalator" Lounge wanted my card, my ticket, etc., and wrote everything down in some little notebook...but then let me in.
FWIW, the food in the AF Lounges whomp @ss over the "nuclear orange" snack mix in the CRCs....I prolly don't fly early enough in the day for the good stuff...'cept for what's behind the bar.
The lounges were the high point of my AF trip. AF is a clusterf*ck of an airline, but they could improve by doing some really small stuff better, like
(a) checking docs BEFORE boarding...when my delayed from the night before flight finally left, AF had 3 lines to board, each one of which quickly became clogged up b/c of docs checks on people from countries that you have never heard of. Do this BEFORE boarding.
(b) *AHEM* pre-boarding elites.
(c) Not swearing up and down that the plane would be ready in 15 minutes.....11 times over 4 hours. Lyin' MFers. (It would have been longer, but it was the late flight to JFK; there was only limited opportunity for salami tactics).
Regards,
O/H
In contrast, AF with a *purchased* F ticket refused entry to the F lounge at CDG and it took intervention by a supervisor to get the F lounge access -- for a full fare F ticket! There was no apology for this shoddy treatment ... and I haven't flown AF since then (so this was a very expensive behaviour on their part). I shudder to think how a mere PM is treated by AF if they don't even value their own customers! And the F lounge in CDG isn't that special, hardly worth protecting.
Skyteam seems to be disfunctional when it comes to cross-airline privileges.
Skyteam seems to be disfunctional when it comes to cross-airline privileges.
</font>
FWIW, the food in the AF Lounges whomp @ss over the "nuclear orange" snack mix in the CRCs....I prolly don't fly early enough in the day for the good stuff...'cept for what's behind the bar.
The lounges were the high point of my AF trip. AF is a clusterf*ck of an airline, but they could improve by doing some really small stuff better, like
(a) checking docs BEFORE boarding...when my delayed from the night before flight finally left, AF had 3 lines to board, each one of which quickly became clogged up b/c of docs checks on people from countries that you have never heard of. Do this BEFORE boarding.
(b) *AHEM* pre-boarding elites.
(c) Not swearing up and down that the plane would be ready in 15 minutes.....11 times over 4 hours. Lyin' MFers. (It would have been longer, but it was the late flight to JFK; there was only limited opportunity for salami tactics).
Regards,
O/H
Jun 3, 2002, 2:55 am
#7
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Occupationalhazard:
On the outbound leg, the AF gate guard quickly found the Elite Plus logo on my PM card, and welcomed me to the lounge (and France, for that matter.)
The lounges were the high point of my AF trip. AF is a clusterf*ck of an airline, but they could improve by doing some really small stuff better, like
(a) checking docs BEFORE boarding...when my delayed from the night before flight finally left, AF had 3 lines to board, each one of which quickly became clogged up b/c of docs checks on people from countries that you have never heard of. Do this BEFORE boarding.
(b) *AHEM* pre-boarding elites.
(c) Not swearing up and down that the plane would be ready in 15 minutes.....11 times over 4 hours. Lyin' MFers. (It would have been longer, but it was the late flight to JFK; there was only limited opportunity for salami tactics).
Regards,
O/H</font>
On the outbound leg, the AF gate guard quickly found the Elite Plus logo on my PM card, and welcomed me to the lounge (and France, for that matter.)
The lounges were the high point of my AF trip. AF is a clusterf*ck of an airline, but they could improve by doing some really small stuff better, like
(a) checking docs BEFORE boarding...when my delayed from the night before flight finally left, AF had 3 lines to board, each one of which quickly became clogged up b/c of docs checks on people from countries that you have never heard of. Do this BEFORE boarding.
(b) *AHEM* pre-boarding elites.
(c) Not swearing up and down that the plane would be ready in 15 minutes.....11 times over 4 hours. Lyin' MFers. (It would have been longer, but it was the late flight to JFK; there was only limited opportunity for salami tactics).
Regards,
O/H</font>
[This message has been edited by Mr. Strong (edited 06-03-2002).]
Jun 3, 2002, 8:40 am
#8
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Track, I can only hope that you are a bit tongue and cheek.
The fact that in Paris they would have to look through a book to identify a PM card is unexcusable. The amount of PM traffic through there is huge, therefore their training is unacceptable.
I would also assume from your post that you must have a very big collection of amenity kite due to your luggage often being lost with them!!
The Air France CS department is probably the worst such operation on Earth (and I am referrind especially to their Florida operation). Not one person in the history of FT has ever had a good experience with them. They also have the highest turnover rate in the industry and have had at least three managing heads of the office in less than three years. They lie, admit that their airline is bad and do not keep their promises. Most of the time they are unreachable (due to the extremely high incidences of lost luggage-Their admission, not mine).
As for your KE comments, you are correct they treat DL PM's very well, as does AM, amazing that KE could get this together quite quickly while AF has taken years to just do a half-a88ed job of it.
The fact that in Paris they would have to look through a book to identify a PM card is unexcusable. The amount of PM traffic through there is huge, therefore their training is unacceptable.
I would also assume from your post that you must have a very big collection of amenity kite due to your luggage often being lost with them!!
The Air France CS department is probably the worst such operation on Earth (and I am referrind especially to their Florida operation). Not one person in the history of FT has ever had a good experience with them. They also have the highest turnover rate in the industry and have had at least three managing heads of the office in less than three years. They lie, admit that their airline is bad and do not keep their promises. Most of the time they are unreachable (due to the extremely high incidences of lost luggage-Their admission, not mine).
As for your KE comments, you are correct they treat DL PM's very well, as does AM, amazing that KE could get this together quite quickly while AF has taken years to just do a half-a88ed job of it.
Jun 3, 2002, 9:41 am
#9
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by hfly:
All CRC's in ATL are superior to EVERY AF Business lounge in CDG, plain and simple. The problem experienced by DL PM's has been that AF personnel were not ever letting them into any lounge whatsoever.
</font>
All CRC's in ATL are superior to EVERY AF Business lounge in CDG, plain and simple. The problem experienced by DL PM's has been that AF personnel were not ever letting them into any lounge whatsoever.
</font>
On the discussion about gaining entry, I was a PM traveling Business on AF with a DL issued ticket. I handed the lounge agent my PM card and ticket. She immediately said, "You know only one of those is required to gain access." (Said almost in a rude way, but at least she knew the rules!) I also had two additional guests with me traveling in economy whom she allowed into the lounge. She said that if the lounge became full, she would request that one of my guests leave. LOL That fortunately never happened though, of course.
[This message has been edited by EchoVictor (edited 06-03-2002).]
Jun 3, 2002, 5:42 pm
#10
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Victor,
I am very glad to hear that after (tens of)thousands of complaints about how badly DL PM's have been treated trying to get into the lounges at CDG that things have now started to change.
As far as lounges are concerned, I believe that you are referring to the lounge in 2F (as you state "down the escalator", 2C is actually up a flight of stairs in the "rafters") the lounge is very modern, yet crowded. The seats are not very comfortable and besides a few wines which are there (three my last count),there is very very poor beverage selection. On my last visit I believe that there were approximately 8 spirits to choose from, one type of beer and some basic soft drinks and juices (and very poor sucky juices at that). This is far less than is available in CRC's or BizElite lounges in NY or ATL. As for the snacks, yes they do have the same crappy biscuits, crackers and prepackaged cheeses as are found in about any Biz lounge in Europe. Perhaps these are impressive to you, for those of us who fly in Europe everyday they are unappealing, just about as unappealing as CRC snack mix. When the BizElite lounge(s) in NY serve food it is much much superior to this.
I am very glad to hear that after (tens of)thousands of complaints about how badly DL PM's have been treated trying to get into the lounges at CDG that things have now started to change.
As far as lounges are concerned, I believe that you are referring to the lounge in 2F (as you state "down the escalator", 2C is actually up a flight of stairs in the "rafters") the lounge is very modern, yet crowded. The seats are not very comfortable and besides a few wines which are there (three my last count),there is very very poor beverage selection. On my last visit I believe that there were approximately 8 spirits to choose from, one type of beer and some basic soft drinks and juices (and very poor sucky juices at that). This is far less than is available in CRC's or BizElite lounges in NY or ATL. As for the snacks, yes they do have the same crappy biscuits, crackers and prepackaged cheeses as are found in about any Biz lounge in Europe. Perhaps these are impressive to you, for those of us who fly in Europe everyday they are unappealing, just about as unappealing as CRC snack mix. When the BizElite lounge(s) in NY serve food it is much much superior to this.
Jun 3, 2002, 7:18 pm
#11
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hfly,
Yes, I have a nice collection of AF amenities kits from their baggage department, and I love their baggage home-delivery service (I've plagiarized that comment from a fellow passenger). I didn't say the people at AF were competent, only that they were pleasant and polite and that they have always treated me well. Yes, for some stupid reason the CDG-Saigon flight was delayed one day (the plane went to Hanoi instead!), but we were all very quickly accommodated in a fine hotel and provided with meal coupons and telephone cards (which turned out to have expired!), and all this with a very pleasant smile and astonishing efficiency (I guess it happens often). My bag went astray between Paris and Berlin, but an AF agent was waiting at the belt and took the 3 of us with missing bags to the baggage claim office and helped us with the forms (again, I guess it happens often) and got us each another of those nice first-class amenities kits (with a fresh undershirt). The lounge, ground and air crew on the Concorde were the most accommodating I've ever encountered on any airline (yes, I understand they are specially picked and trained). The Customer Care people on the telephone in Florida have been very pleasant the two times I spoke to them and quickly found the details of my complaint in their computer, but they twice sent me a letter of apology, indicating a travel voucher was enclosed, only to have neglected to include the voucher! The airline is indeed one of the worst run, but I have the impression their staff try to put on a good face in front of the passengers; for some reason (out-of sight, out-of-mind mentality? lack of support from headquarters? Gallic insouciance?) it just doesn't get converted into a smooth-running operation. I can't say that an AF staff member has ever been rude to me, or even tried to ignore me. They've met every request I've ever made to them, or given me a good reason why they couldn't. They do outrageous things with a smile, which is better than being barked at by some overworked, harrassed GA at the Delta terminal in JFK. At least AF has never left me stranded (unlike Kenya and Indian Airlines) and has always gotten my bags to me within one day; it's still the kind of airline which is exasperating to deal with but has the staff I always enjoy flying with.
Yes, I have a nice collection of AF amenities kits from their baggage department, and I love their baggage home-delivery service (I've plagiarized that comment from a fellow passenger). I didn't say the people at AF were competent, only that they were pleasant and polite and that they have always treated me well. Yes, for some stupid reason the CDG-Saigon flight was delayed one day (the plane went to Hanoi instead!), but we were all very quickly accommodated in a fine hotel and provided with meal coupons and telephone cards (which turned out to have expired!), and all this with a very pleasant smile and astonishing efficiency (I guess it happens often). My bag went astray between Paris and Berlin, but an AF agent was waiting at the belt and took the 3 of us with missing bags to the baggage claim office and helped us with the forms (again, I guess it happens often) and got us each another of those nice first-class amenities kits (with a fresh undershirt). The lounge, ground and air crew on the Concorde were the most accommodating I've ever encountered on any airline (yes, I understand they are specially picked and trained). The Customer Care people on the telephone in Florida have been very pleasant the two times I spoke to them and quickly found the details of my complaint in their computer, but they twice sent me a letter of apology, indicating a travel voucher was enclosed, only to have neglected to include the voucher! The airline is indeed one of the worst run, but I have the impression their staff try to put on a good face in front of the passengers; for some reason (out-of sight, out-of-mind mentality? lack of support from headquarters? Gallic insouciance?) it just doesn't get converted into a smooth-running operation. I can't say that an AF staff member has ever been rude to me, or even tried to ignore me. They've met every request I've ever made to them, or given me a good reason why they couldn't. They do outrageous things with a smile, which is better than being barked at by some overworked, harrassed GA at the Delta terminal in JFK. At least AF has never left me stranded (unlike Kenya and Indian Airlines) and has always gotten my bags to me within one day; it's still the kind of airline which is exasperating to deal with but has the staff I always enjoy flying with.
Jun 4, 2002, 3:55 am
#12
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About the CDG2 lounges :
- 2B is up the stairs for non-Schengen destinations
- 2C is down the stairs for some long-haul destinations; there is a small First Class lounge on the other side
- 2D is up the stairs for domestic and Schengen destinations
- 2F1 is down the stairs for Schengen destinations (2 floors, one of which is dedicated to smokers)
- 2F2 is down the stairs for long-haul destinations or non-Schengen short-haul (2 floors, one of which is dedicated to smokers). There is a First class lounge on the other side.
I have forgotten where the 2A lounges are located.
[This message has been edited by JOUY31 (edited 06-04-2002).]
- 2B is up the stairs for non-Schengen destinations
- 2C is down the stairs for some long-haul destinations; there is a small First Class lounge on the other side
- 2D is up the stairs for domestic and Schengen destinations
- 2F1 is down the stairs for Schengen destinations (2 floors, one of which is dedicated to smokers)
- 2F2 is down the stairs for long-haul destinations or non-Schengen short-haul (2 floors, one of which is dedicated to smokers). There is a First class lounge on the other side.
I have forgotten where the 2A lounges are located.
[This message has been edited by JOUY31 (edited 06-04-2002).]
Jun 4, 2002, 10:56 am
#13
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Jouy,
I agree with you on the lounge location in CDG 2C.
But are you suggesting here that hfly could be wrong sometime on his statements about AF ?
I am flabbergasted.
[This message has been edited by TGV (edited 06-04-2002).]
I agree with you on the lounge location in CDG 2C.
But are you suggesting here that hfly could be wrong sometime on his statements about AF ?
I am flabbergasted.
[This message has been edited by TGV (edited 06-04-2002).]
Jun 4, 2002, 12:58 pm
#14
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I may be wrong/I may be right, Victor spoke about "believeing" the lounge was in 2C. As he spoke of going down, and for some reason in my head I thought he spoke about inter-Europe rather than to the US on DL, I assumed that it would have been 2F. Furthermore as the lounge in 2C is inferior to those in 2F (yes there can be different degrees of badness) I assumed that he meant 2F.
As for being wrong about AF. I have been very very specific on many occasions here why I despise AF, and to be quite frank with you, not too many people here or in the real world seem to disagree with me.
[This message has not been edited by hfly, but he would have loved to see what TGV edited out of his (not edited 06-04-2002).]
As for being wrong about AF. I have been very very specific on many occasions here why I despise AF, and to be quite frank with you, not too many people here or in the real world seem to disagree with me.
[This message has not been edited by hfly, but he would have loved to see what TGV edited out of his (not edited 06-04-2002).]