AF Premium Voyager Review
Mar 24, 10, 9:11 pm
#16
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: PHX
Programs: Delta DM 2M, AA EP, Marriott AE
Posts: 223
Other Reviews of Premium Eco Product
There is an interresting article from Business Traveler on Premium Economy products:
http://www.btusonline.com/article.php?id=326
Enjoy!
http://www.btusonline.com/article.php?id=326
Enjoy!
Mar 24, 10, 9:40 pm
#17
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: PHX
Programs: Delta DM 2M, AA EP, Marriott AE
Posts: 223
New Booking Attempts on Premium NYC-CDG
I tried to book an AF Premium Voyageur and OpenSkies flight from NYC to Paris leaving 5/20 and returning 5/24 and it was quoted:
Air France: $1,897
OpenSkies: $1,721
Tried the same thing leaving July 2 and returning July 11:
Air France: $1,897
OpenSkies: $1,971
CO B/F: $2,185
Tried finally a last reservation leaving September 9 and returning September 13:
Air France: $1,574
OpenSkies: $1,596
Interresting to see that Openskies prices went up, maybe they are realizing that they have a good product AF cannot compete well with! Or they realized they were going broke!
For the summer, CO (and UA in fact) are offering discount Business tickets that puts AF/DL Premium Eco and OpenSkies fares to shame!!! AF/DL are not showing discount Business fares (yet?)
So 2 things will happen:
1- I will not make all the personnal trips I am invited to do because I think the prices are getting out of control!
2- I maybe a hardcore Skyteam member but the summer, if I decide to do the trip to France ... CO is going to see an old friend! their Business First product is outstanding and I am not sticking my ... in AF metal just for the miles! Ciao!
Air France: $1,897
OpenSkies: $1,721
Tried the same thing leaving July 2 and returning July 11:
Air France: $1,897
OpenSkies: $1,971
CO B/F: $2,185
Tried finally a last reservation leaving September 9 and returning September 13:
Air France: $1,574
OpenSkies: $1,596
Interresting to see that Openskies prices went up, maybe they are realizing that they have a good product AF cannot compete well with! Or they realized they were going broke!
For the summer, CO (and UA in fact) are offering discount Business tickets that puts AF/DL Premium Eco and OpenSkies fares to shame!!! AF/DL are not showing discount Business fares (yet?)
So 2 things will happen:
1- I will not make all the personnal trips I am invited to do because I think the prices are getting out of control!
2- I maybe a hardcore Skyteam member but the summer, if I decide to do the trip to France ... CO is going to see an old friend! their Business First product is outstanding and I am not sticking my ... in AF metal just for the miles! Ciao!
Apr 6, 10, 4:38 am
#18
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: FB AF Silver, BA Gold
Posts: 14,655
Originally Posted by pferrandi
I tried to book an AF Premium Voyageur and OpenSkies flight from NYC to Paris leaving 5/20 and returning 5/24 and it was quoted:
Air France: $1,897
OpenSkies: $1,721
Tried the same thing leaving July 2 and returning July 11:
Air France: $1,897
OpenSkies: $1,971
CO B/F: $2,185
Tried finally a last reservation leaving September 9 and returning September 13:
Air France: $1,574
OpenSkies: $1,596
Interresting to see that Openskies prices went up, maybe they are realizing that they have a good product AF cannot compete well with! Or they realized they were going broke!
For the summer, CO (and UA in fact) are offering discount Business tickets that puts AF/DL Premium Eco and OpenSkies fares to shame!!! AF/DL are not showing discount Business fares (yet?)
So 2 things will happen:
1- I will not make all the personnal trips I am invited to do because I think the prices are getting out of control!
2- I maybe a hardcore Skyteam member but the summer, if I decide to do the trip to France ... CO is going to see an old friend! their Business First product is outstanding and I am not sticking my ... in AF metal just for the miles! Ciao!
Air France: $1,897
OpenSkies: $1,721
Tried the same thing leaving July 2 and returning July 11:
Air France: $1,897
OpenSkies: $1,971
CO B/F: $2,185
Tried finally a last reservation leaving September 9 and returning September 13:
Air France: $1,574
OpenSkies: $1,596
Interresting to see that Openskies prices went up, maybe they are realizing that they have a good product AF cannot compete well with! Or they realized they were going broke!
For the summer, CO (and UA in fact) are offering discount Business tickets that puts AF/DL Premium Eco and OpenSkies fares to shame!!! AF/DL are not showing discount Business fares (yet?)
So 2 things will happen:
1- I will not make all the personnal trips I am invited to do because I think the prices are getting out of control!
2- I maybe a hardcore Skyteam member but the summer, if I decide to do the trip to France ... CO is going to see an old friend! their Business First product is outstanding and I am not sticking my ... in AF metal just for the miles! Ciao!
Yes CO BusinessFirst is excellent and when they will have their new flat beds installed on all aircrafts...
Apr 21, 10, 1:13 pm
#19
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5
I wonder what the situation is like for the first row of seats, facing the bulkhead. Where does the folding tray table fold out from then ? From the bulkhead, or from somewhere deep within the armrest. Same for the IFE monitor, and the footrest.
Anyone with information about such seats ( particularly on 777's between LAX and CDG?)
Anyone with information about such seats ( particularly on 777's between LAX and CDG?)
Apr 21, 10, 7:18 pm
#20
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: DL DM/MM, and major hotels
Posts: 497
Just flew PV for the first time last week (one way, it turns out). Not impressed. The only reason to fly it is if you have to do some work on the flight and don't want to spring for business. Why? Big table, power plug and no seat reclining into you. Otherwise, the leg room is decent, but the seats need more padding, impossible to sleep in unless you're medicated.
Other than that, you get the business class amenity kit - what's that really worth, about $3? Food/wine same as economy.
Other than that, you get the business class amenity kit - what's that really worth, about $3? Food/wine same as economy.
Apr 22, 10, 4:57 am
#21
Join Date: May 2005
Location: BRU
Programs: A3/Gold, BA/Gold + other less precious metals
Posts: 2,641
Originally Posted by mondo
Just flew PV for the first time last week (one way, it turns out). Not impressed. The only reason to fly it is if you have to do some work on the flight and don't want to spring for business. Why? Big table, power plug and no seat reclining into you. Otherwise, the leg room is decent, but the seats need more padding, impossible to sleep in unless you're medicated.
Other than that, you get the business class amenity kit - what's that really worth, about $3? Food/wine same as economy.
Other than that, you get the business class amenity kit - what's that really worth, about $3? Food/wine same as economy.
Apr 22, 10, 7:41 am
#22
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 3,956
Originally Posted by mondo
Just flew PV for the first time last week (one way, it turns out). Not impressed. The only reason to fly it is if you have to do some work on the flight and don't want to spring for business. Why? Big table, power plug and no seat reclining into you. Otherwise, the leg room is decent, but the seats need more padding, impossible to sleep in unless you're medicated.
Other than that, you get the business class amenity kit - what's that really worth, about $3? Food/wine same as economy.
Other than that, you get the business class amenity kit - what's that really worth, about $3? Food/wine same as economy.
In a nutshell, I will not fork out the extra $$ to PV/PE, since I find this shell concept seat horrible for any angle of sleep and the foot rest quite useless. Believe it or not, for sleep I would prefer to be in the back part of the plane with a window seat.
Rant: I really really hate these "shell" seats! The designer of these seats should be sentenced to sleep in them for life!
Cheers!
Apr 24, 10, 7:45 pm
#23
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: DL DM/MM, and major hotels
Posts: 497
Originally Posted by nomad1974
OK, but what where your expectations? (I mean this in a factual way, not sarcastic). IPV is something between Economy and Business and should be judged as that. Did it not deliver to that promise, i.e. better than Eco, worse than Biz?
As for value, it was 80% more money for only 40% more space and nothing more (oh yea the 3$ amenity kit). So, I would say prices are too high for what it is.
Apr 25, 10, 2:20 am
#24
Join Date: May 2005
Location: BRU
Programs: A3/Gold, BA/Gold + other less precious metals
Posts: 2,641
Originally Posted by mondo
It delivered as expected on all fronts but seat comfort. I generally have not had problems w/ AF seats, but this one was painful. It was very hard on my not-so-padded behind, it felt to me like someone had draped some cloth on top of a park bench.
As for value, it was 80% more money for only 40% more space and nothing more (oh yea the 3$ amenity kit). So, I would say prices are too high for what it is.
As for value, it was 80% more money for only 40% more space and nothing more (oh yea the 3$ amenity kit). So, I would say prices are too high for what it is.
Apr 26, 10, 5:38 pm
#25
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 48
I flew in PV a couple of weeks ago and while I did have far more space than the folks in Y I agree that the seats were far from comfortable. In the future - I'll kick in the extra $ to get a business class seat. The room is nice but its the kind of seat you can never really get comfortable in. Endless drinks are nice but I would have loved more of a sleep-friendly setup. Considering how empty it was on both my legs (outbound only three people and inbound about 40% full) maybe they just replace them with biz class seats sigh.
Apr 26, 10, 7:48 pm
#26
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SYD
Programs: |QF Gold|
Posts: 1,730
Originally Posted by mondo
It delivered as expected on all fronts but seat comfort. I generally have not had problems w/ AF seats, but this one was painful. It was very hard on my not-so-padded behind, it felt to me like someone had draped some cloth on top of a park bench.
As for value, it was 80% more money for only 40% more space and nothing more (oh yea the 3$ amenity kit). So, I would say prices are too high for what it is.
As for value, it was 80% more money for only 40% more space and nothing more (oh yea the 3$ amenity kit). So, I would say prices are too high for what it is.
In terms of value for money, I think that comment applies to Premium Economy generally. Having flown BA World Traveller Plus and Virgin Atlantic Premium Economy, the 2:1 ratio of increased price to increased space is not worth it. Even if the cabins are relatively empty, you can't lift up the armrests to increase your space. Of course, I'd never turn down an op-up!
Apr 26, 10, 9:13 pm
#27
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: PHX
Programs: Delta DM 2M, AA EP, Marriott AE
Posts: 223
Originally Posted by Supersonic Swinger
Regarding the seats - supposedly they are the same as the Cathay Pacific new Economy seats which on the three hour flight SIN-HKG were already uncomfortable because they were so hard.
In terms of value for money, I think that comment applies to Premium Economy generally. Having flown BA World Traveller Plus and Virgin Atlantic Premium Economy, the 2:1 ratio of increased price to increased space is not worth it. Even if the cabins are relatively empty, you can't lift up the armrests to increase your space. Of course, I'd never turn down an op-up!
In terms of value for money, I think that comment applies to Premium Economy generally. Having flown BA World Traveller Plus and Virgin Atlantic Premium Economy, the 2:1 ratio of increased price to increased space is not worth it. Even if the cabins are relatively empty, you can't lift up the armrests to increase your space. Of course, I'd never turn down an op-up!
My approach: I would rather not go than pay too much for a little bit more comfort. I eliminated all personal trips to Europe until Christmas. I will not rackup $1000-$1400 in coach or $2,000 in PV between NYC and CDG! Now I understand that others may have obligations (sorry!).
On another front I just bought $2,800 tickets between LAX and SYD with DL using Systemwide Upgrades because in that case I think it makes more sense. Still al lot of money but coach for 15 hours ... ouch!
May 20, 10, 3:41 pm
#28
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 13
cdg - iad
First time in premium economy in AF. I usually fly BA, either business (good) or world traveller + (less good )
My only benchmark is British World traveller + as for economy premium. I must say, it, without any doubts, is better than BA.
The main difference comes from the "ground" benefits, similar to Business PAX while British does treat you as economy passenger. In short, what you get is boarding priority and dedicated check-in, priority luggages and to my great surprise lounge access in Paris.
On board, experience is more in line with WT+, economy service and fairly similar space and cabin size. The main difference comes from the fact that AF cabin and layout is more modern and that you are not bothered by the reclining seat of the front passenger as AF seats fully integrated, which contributes to give some further privacy. The main cons is seat comfort, not as good as in BA, was quite difficult to find good sleep position and seat are extremly thin. there are somewhat hard, but did manage to rest.
Paid EUR 1000 which i consider fair value and maximum I would paid for eco +, to sum-up, good product, better than BA, but seat comfort could be improved. As for the comparaison with open sky b seats, choice is easy, one side you have an upgraded economy cabin, on the other side a downgrade business cabin, at equivalent price, would without any doubt opt for business
)My only benchmark is British World traveller + as for economy premium. I must say, it, without any doubts, is better than BA.
The main difference comes from the "ground" benefits, similar to Business PAX while British does treat you as economy passenger. In short, what you get is boarding priority and dedicated check-in, priority luggages and to my great surprise lounge access in Paris.
On board, experience is more in line with WT+, economy service and fairly similar space and cabin size. The main difference comes from the fact that AF cabin and layout is more modern and that you are not bothered by the reclining seat of the front passenger as AF seats fully integrated, which contributes to give some further privacy. The main cons is seat comfort, not as good as in BA, was quite difficult to find good sleep position and seat are extremly thin. there are somewhat hard, but did manage to rest.
Paid EUR 1000 which i consider fair value and maximum I would paid for eco +, to sum-up, good product, better than BA, but seat comfort could be improved. As for the comparaison with open sky b seats, choice is easy, one side you have an upgraded economy cabin, on the other side a downgrade business cabin, at equivalent price, would without any doubt opt for business
May 20, 10, 8:14 pm
#29
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: PHX
Programs: Delta DM 2M, AA EP, Marriott AE
Posts: 223
Originally Posted by patricepnc
First time in premium economy in AF. I usually fly BA, either business (good) or world traveller + (less good )
My only benchmark is British World traveller + as for economy premium. I must say, it, without any doubts, is better than BA.
The main difference comes from the "ground" benefits, similar to Business PAX while British does treat you as economy passenger. In short, what you get is boarding priority and dedicated check-in, priority luggages and to my great surprise lounge access in Paris.
On board, experience is more in line with WT+, economy service and fairly similar space and cabin size. The main difference comes from the fact that AF cabin and layout is more modern and that you are not bothered by the reclining seat of the front passenger as AF seats fully integrated, which contributes to give some further privacy. The main cons is seat comfort, not as good as in BA, was quite difficult to find good sleep position and seat are extremly thin. there are somewhat hard, but did manage to rest.
Paid EUR 1000 which i consider fair value and maximum I would paid for eco +, to sum-up, good product, better than BA, but seat comfort could be improved. As for the comparaison with open sky b seats, choice is easy, one side you have an upgraded economy cabin, on the other side a downgrade business cabin, at equivalent price, would without any doubt opt for business
)My only benchmark is British World traveller + as for economy premium. I must say, it, without any doubts, is better than BA.
The main difference comes from the "ground" benefits, similar to Business PAX while British does treat you as economy passenger. In short, what you get is boarding priority and dedicated check-in, priority luggages and to my great surprise lounge access in Paris.
On board, experience is more in line with WT+, economy service and fairly similar space and cabin size. The main difference comes from the fact that AF cabin and layout is more modern and that you are not bothered by the reclining seat of the front passenger as AF seats fully integrated, which contributes to give some further privacy. The main cons is seat comfort, not as good as in BA, was quite difficult to find good sleep position and seat are extremly thin. there are somewhat hard, but did manage to rest.
Paid EUR 1000 which i consider fair value and maximum I would paid for eco +, to sum-up, good product, better than BA, but seat comfort could be improved. As for the comparaison with open sky b seats, choice is easy, one side you have an upgraded economy cabin, on the other side a downgrade business cabin, at equivalent price, would without any doubt opt for business
May 21, 10, 1:01 am
#30
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 20,185
Originally Posted by patricepnc
and to my great surprise lounge access in Paris.
Originally Posted by pferrandi
Thank you for the great review. I am surprised by the lounge access, it was not possible earlier this year unless you were a Skyteam Elite+ member. But I think it is good if they changed their policy on that!
http://www.airfrance.fr/FR/fr/common..._airfrance.htm
