raistlin

I must say that I am mildly disappointed at KLM's handling of the introduction of Economy Comfort seats. On AF Elite+ members can get preferred seats for free (heck, that's one of the few alliance wide benefits, right?). On KLM, you seemingly just get a discount - unless you are a Flying Blue FF.

Has anyone tested these seats? Are they worth the 60 EUR (or 120 EUR if you are not Elite+) one-way that the airline asks for?

LADELTA777

I am also interested in the answer of this post.

sbm12

Their premium economy product is not the same as "preferred seats;" it is a different cabin.

On AF a customer in Tempo doesn't get Tempo+ for free in general. Same idea.

hardiwv

As mentioned above, Economy Comfort is not preferred seating, but rather another cabin/another class. The same as AF Premium Voyager.

KL still offer preferred seats for FFs such as emergency seats, this is different from Economy Comfort which have a little more recline and space.

More details here -

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/klm-f...y-comfort.html

Rgs,

nomad1974

Absolutely NOT. AF Premium Voyageur is a different class with entirely different seats than Voyageur (Economy). KL Economy Comfort is the same seats as Economy, just more legroom.

As an aside, I had a nasty experience recently, fying KL YYZ-AMS with my partner (who is FB Gold, I am Platinum). Platinums get Economy Comfort for free, Golds have to pay (the get a 50% discount). We had a long discussion with the KL station manager at YYZ based on the fact that essentially, this policy forces pax to either (1) pay more to fly together, (2) split from their travelling companions, or (3) take something less than entitled (i.e. Platinum moves "down" to Economy). Station manager (and other stuff) said they have the same complaint by a lot of pax and they are frustrated by the way KL has handled the introduction of Economy comfort.

raistlin

(I cut your quote, hope you don't mind)

From what I read, Premium Voyageur IS a different class with different service (while actually on continental flights it often happens to FF to be bumped up there from economy, at least, it happened to me a couple of times).

These "Economy Comfort" seat have just more legroom.

However, it is not as another poster pointed out, that Elite+ members can still get exit rows or other reserved seatings, as they show up locked on the seat map even if you enter your Elite+ credentials, and on the phone (can you believe this?!) KLM operators are instructed NOT TO HELP YOU with your reservation, even for seating, if you have bought your ticket from a travel agent.

I am really appalled by this level of service from a once-reliable airline. In comparison, calling Delta (and, I mean, Delta!) got me my elite seats in five minutes with full satisfaction and a cheerful support in choosing the good ones (which I didn't really need, but it is still appreciated )

nomad1974

Yep, like I said, Economy Comfort seats on KLM are ONLY available free of charge to Flying Blue Platinum pax (and full-fare Economy ticket holders), that's it! NOT to FB Gold or other SkyTeam ElitePlus members.

It's all pretty much explained here:
https://www.klm.com/travel/us_en/pre...eat_choice.htm

Two quotes:
"In our Economy Comfort zone you have extra legroom (up to 86-89 cm/34-35 inch) and more recline (15-18 cm/6-7 inch) ... The service in the Economy Comfort zone is of the same excellent quality as in Economy Class."

"The price for a seat in the Economy Comfort zone is from EUR 80 to 150 per one way, depending on the duration of the flight. If you are a Flying Blue Platinum member or if you travel on a fully flexible Economy ticket, you can get a seat in the Economy Comfort zone free of charge. Flying Blue Gold members and SkyTeam Elite Plus members of our partner airlines receive a 50% discount. Flying Blue Silver members pay 25% less."

Again, AF Premium Voyageur is a different cabin/seat/product altogether. See here:
http://corporate.airfrance.com/en/yo...voyageur-seat/

This is only offered on longhaul flights. Shorthaul (i.e. intra-Europe and narrowbody flights to ME/NA) all 3 "classes" (Voyageur*, Premium Voyageur* and Affaires) have the same exact seats (albeit in Affaires the middle seat is blocked and turned into a table). Service is slightly different. However, it is not true that FB Platinums get automatic upgrades to PV, far from it. Guess you were just lucky


* Previously Tempo and Tempo+.

hardiwv

No. The seats are the same as economy, however, there is more legroom and also more recline. This means it is a different product than economy. You are right by pointing out that it is not another cabin, but it is also not economy or preferred seating. You may refer to it as economy plus. You cannot compare it with emergency seats, for example, since you have twice the recline of economy.

The fact that Platinum get the seat for free and Gold with a discount is a courtesy by KL to entice their FF to remain with the airline. It is up to anyone to judge whether this is fair enough.

But assuming that Economy Comfort should be comparable to preferred seating or the like is an inacurate representation of the reality simply because Economy Comfort is not preferred seating.

Rgs,

nomad1974

Read my posts. Did I ever mention the words "preferred seating"?!

I agree, it's a sort of UA Economy+ but any way you look at it, Economy Comfort is not the same or even equivalent or comparable to AF Premium Voyageur, as you claimed in your first post in this thread: and this is what I was trying to convey. Read the two links I posted, you will see there are clear differences between the two "products".

hardiwv

I read your post, my reply was not only to your post only, but referred to the discussion in general. This because in the initial post there was reference to preferred seat and tried to compare it with Economy Comfort.

In addition to your post in which you mentioned the problem you faced travelling with your partner, another unfair aspect of the situation is that if you live in AMS you have access to Amex FB card (I am FB Platinum and hence applied for Amex FB Platinum and requested an additional Amex card for my partner) which therefore entails him to Platinum status although he barely travels...

Rgs,

nomad1974

OK, fair enough. It's just because you were quoting my post Sorry!

Sorry, can you explain this better to me? There is a Dutch Platinum AMEX FB card which automatically gives you (and supplementary cardholders?) FB Platinum?! Never knew about this... I am a FR AMEX FB Platinum cardholder, and have a supplementary card for my partner but neither of them comes with automatic FB status.

hardiwv

Yes! There is an Amex Platinum card (for NL residents only) which entitles you to up to 2 suplementary/dependents card and it automatically extends the FB Platinum level to all supplementary/dependent card holders. This is why in Holland you have whole families which are FB Platinum provided one is actual FB Platinum...(the same applies for Gold). But note that the billing comes all on the account of the main card holder, and miles also come all to the main holder FB account.

For example, I am FB Platinum and applied for Amex FB Platinum and my partner automatically became Platinum and gets all benefits of FB Platinum holders (free Economy Comfort seat, lounge access, and even upgrades - we both got upgraded twice flying together over the last 12 months, once on AMS-LIS and once on AMS-SFO).

https://www.iplatinum.americanexpres...e=PlatinumHome

Rgs,

nomad1974

Thank you; I didn't know this. This is slightly insane. But glad it works for you ^

hardiwv

Other airlines have similar schemes, I know of LAN for example.

There are other things which I find much more unfair: I am sure you also know that to become Platinum in NL you need 70,000 level miles while 100,000 if you are France resident...

Rgs,

nomad1974

90k miles but yeah, I am aware of this, obviously