24 hours in Singapore
Oct 29, 2011, 3:34 am
#76
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So here I am in Singapore near the end of my trip.
What I saw and did:
* 4 minutes from plane seat to taxi ^
* 35 minutes from plane seat to hotel room ^
* Lots of attractive women wearing very short dresses and shorts ^
* Lots of very big crabs ^
* Lots and lots and lots of white people
* Orchard Towers shopping mall at night time (the four floors of whores - I did not believe it until I saw it myself)
* Cool halloween parties in Clarke Quay and elsewhere ^
* The wheelchair bar that Swanhunter and matthandy mentioned ^
* Peony Jade Chinese restaurant, one of SIN's best apparently, where I had capital spare ribs and stir fried beef with spring onion ^
* Haagen Dazs ice cream sushi ^
* Mighty rain showers ^
* Fort Canning park ^
* SGD 8 (four quid) for a Coke in Clarke Quay!
All in all, a very good trip. Flight on QR was excellent.
TR coming soon!
What I saw and did:
* 4 minutes from plane seat to taxi ^
* 35 minutes from plane seat to hotel room ^
* Lots of attractive women wearing very short dresses and shorts ^
* Lots of very big crabs ^
* Lots and lots and lots of white people
* Orchard Towers shopping mall at night time (the four floors of whores - I did not believe it until I saw it myself)
* Cool halloween parties in Clarke Quay and elsewhere ^
* The wheelchair bar that Swanhunter and matthandy mentioned ^
* Peony Jade Chinese restaurant, one of SIN's best apparently, where I had capital spare ribs and stir fried beef with spring onion ^
* Haagen Dazs ice cream sushi ^
* Mighty rain showers ^
* Fort Canning park ^
* SGD 8 (four quid) for a Coke in Clarke Quay!
All in all, a very good trip. Flight on QR was excellent.
TR coming soon!
Oct 29, 2011, 4:31 am
#77
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Nov 4, 2011, 5:19 am
#79
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Nov 4, 2011, 10:14 am
#81
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Let us imagine for a moment that your account of the situation is balanced - which it is not. I'm confining my answer to the original complaint you made about drugs and the death penalty rather than the diversions you made subsequently.
As you will see from my banner I support Repreive so I guess my sentiments on the topic can be presumed. Several times each year I'm asked to stump up cash to support inmates on US death row who are suffering a miscarriage of justice. Recently many of the requests have simply been for funding for inexpensive DNA tests which could prove the innocence of an convicted person awaiting execution and where the justice system wouldn't fund the test. I have been honoured to meet a few of the people recently who have travelled to the UK in order to meet some of us who have funded their defence. This does not indicate a system of which people of conscience should feel proud and that takes any basic effort toprotect it's own innocent people from a death penalty lottery.
Singapore justifies it's system on the basis that it's society benefits from the tough stance it takes. I think their claim does appear to be justified. Drug trafficing and it's resulting lawlessness is almoost eliminated. This approach isn't without a cost as you point out. The downside of this approach is that people are executed for drug trafficing and there is a risk of miscarriages of justice.
America routinely tortures and executes innocent people with no discernible benefit to society as a whole.
I am not stating (and no have I) that either is right. I am however suggesting that one feels "more wrong" than the other to me.
As you will see from my banner I support Repreive so I guess my sentiments on the topic can be presumed. Several times each year I'm asked to stump up cash to support inmates on US death row who are suffering a miscarriage of justice. Recently many of the requests have simply been for funding for inexpensive DNA tests which could prove the innocence of an convicted person awaiting execution and where the justice system wouldn't fund the test. I have been honoured to meet a few of the people recently who have travelled to the UK in order to meet some of us who have funded their defence. This does not indicate a system of which people of conscience should feel proud and that takes any basic effort toprotect it's own innocent people from a death penalty lottery.
Singapore justifies it's system on the basis that it's society benefits from the tough stance it takes. I think their claim does appear to be justified. Drug trafficing and it's resulting lawlessness is almoost eliminated. This approach isn't without a cost as you point out. The downside of this approach is that people are executed for drug trafficing and there is a risk of miscarriages of justice.
America routinely tortures and executes innocent people with no discernible benefit to society as a whole.
I am not stating (and no have I) that either is right. I am however suggesting that one feels "more wrong" than the other to me.
I have to say that your stand appears to be flawed and seriously confused. How can you support death penalty in one case and oppose it in another?
Singapore's defence means nothing. all Governments, including UK, justify their actions on the basis of their holier-than-thou laws and then issue apologies decades if not centuries later. The crimes committed by the UK Government during the period of the UK empire and beyond comes readily to mind, for which apologies were issued later.
I do not have any issues with any of those past history, but I raise them as a counterpoint to your persistent complaints about the US Government while discussing Singapore death penalty: an approach that makes no sense to me. Death Penalty is wrong, period. It does not matter if it is US, Singapore or outer Mongolia. I never said that Singapore is 'more wrong' while the US is less wrong. all are wrong. I raised my point about Singapore, as this thread HAPPENED TO BE about Singapore transit.
Now I contend that Singapore is more draconian that US laws.
(a) Singapore's laws have NO discretion. US laws have some discretion. In Singapore, if you are unaware of carrying drugs and they are found on you, you hang. Even Singapore Judges cannot make an exception. In the US, past records are taken into consideration and sometimes sentences are commuted.
(b) In Singapore, the person is guilty till proven innocent. This is against all common sense and justice.
(c) IN Singapore, one is required by law to prove that one did not know that they were carrying drugs. This is an obvious impossibility to prove what one knew before. In US, there are laws, and there are stupid laws, but no obviously impossible laws to fullfill.
If what you say about raising cash for US death row inmates is true, and at thte same time you think death penalty in Singapore is 'justified': what are you really working for? The death row inmates, or personal glory?
Nov 4, 2011, 11:18 am
#82
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Sorry I am a little late in replying. I am pro-reprieve as well, so that means that we have something in common. So what are we exactly divergent on? Your stance that Singapore's stance on enforcing death penalty is 'justified' while in the same post you try to criticize US death penalty, the justice system in US and their 'torture'.
I have to say that your stand appears to be flawed and seriously confused. How can you support death penalty in one case and oppose it in another?
Singapore's defence means nothing. all Governments, including UK, justify their actions on the basis of their holier-than-thou laws and then issue apologies decades if not centuries later. The crimes committed by the UK Government during the period of the UK empire and beyond comes readily to mind, for which apologies were issued later.
I do not have any issues with any of those past history, but I raise them as a counterpoint to your persistent complaints about the US Government while discussing Singapore death penalty: an approach that makes no sense to me. Death Penalty is wrong, period. It does not matter if it is US, Singapore or outer Mongolia. I never said that Singapore is 'more wrong' while the US is less wrong. all are wrong. I raised my point about Singapore, as this thread HAPPENED TO BE about Singapore transit.
Now I contend that Singapore is more draconian that US laws.
(a) Singapore's laws have NO discretion. US laws have some discretion. In Singapore, if you are unaware of carrying drugs and they are found on you, you hang. Even Singapore Judges cannot make an exception. In the US, past records are taken into consideration and sometimes sentences are commuted.
(b) In Singapore, the person is guilty till proven innocent. This is against all common sense and justice.
(c) IN Singapore, one is required by law to prove that one did not know that they were carrying drugs. This is an obvious impossibility to prove what one knew before. In US, there are laws, and there are stupid laws, but no obviously impossible laws to fullfill.
If what you say about raising cash for US death row inmates is true, and at thte same time you think death penalty in Singapore is 'justified': what are you really working for? The death row inmates, or personal glory?
I have to say that your stand appears to be flawed and seriously confused. How can you support death penalty in one case and oppose it in another?
Singapore's defence means nothing. all Governments, including UK, justify their actions on the basis of their holier-than-thou laws and then issue apologies decades if not centuries later. The crimes committed by the UK Government during the period of the UK empire and beyond comes readily to mind, for which apologies were issued later.
I do not have any issues with any of those past history, but I raise them as a counterpoint to your persistent complaints about the US Government while discussing Singapore death penalty: an approach that makes no sense to me. Death Penalty is wrong, period. It does not matter if it is US, Singapore or outer Mongolia. I never said that Singapore is 'more wrong' while the US is less wrong. all are wrong. I raised my point about Singapore, as this thread HAPPENED TO BE about Singapore transit.
Now I contend that Singapore is more draconian that US laws.
(a) Singapore's laws have NO discretion. US laws have some discretion. In Singapore, if you are unaware of carrying drugs and they are found on you, you hang. Even Singapore Judges cannot make an exception. In the US, past records are taken into consideration and sometimes sentences are commuted.
(b) In Singapore, the person is guilty till proven innocent. This is against all common sense and justice.
(c) IN Singapore, one is required by law to prove that one did not know that they were carrying drugs. This is an obvious impossibility to prove what one knew before. In US, there are laws, and there are stupid laws, but no obviously impossible laws to fullfill.
If what you say about raising cash for US death row inmates is true, and at thte same time you think death penalty in Singapore is 'justified': what are you really working for? The death row inmates, or personal glory?
1. I didn't say I "raise cash" for Reprieve - I said I give cash. Your questioning of "whether it is true or not" is not received well.
2. You have presumed (understandably) that because I support Reprieve that I must therefore be against the death penalty. For personal reasons (the murder of a close family member) I am undecided because I am biased. What I am clear about is the need for a fair trial and access to a decent defence when people's lives are at risk. I'm not going to debate Singapore's judicial system simply because I have insufficient knowledge of it compared to my understanding of the US process.
My posts in this thread have not been to defend Singapore - but have been about my reaction to the ease with which you appear to feel it appropriate to introduce your perceptions about unfairness in other societies in a thread about a bloke going to Singapore for a weekend - but seem grumpy about the defects being mentioned about the lack of justice in your own society.
Nov 4, 2011, 12:10 pm
#83
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To take your last point .. And just that - because this isn't the place.
1. I didn't say I "raise cash" for Reprieve - I said I give cash. Your questioning of "whether it is true or not" is not received well.
2. You have presumed (understandably) that because I support Reprieve that I must therefore be against the death penalty. For personal reasons (the murder of a close family member) I am undecided because I am biased. What I am clear about is the need for a fair trial and access to a decent defence when people's lives are at risk. I'm not going to debate Singapore's judicial system simply because I have insufficient knowledge of it compared to my understanding of the US process.
My posts in this thread have not been to defend Singapore - but have been about my reaction to the ease with which you appear to feel it appropriate to introduce your perceptions about unfairness in other societies in a thread about a bloke going to Singapore for a weekend - but seem grumpy about the defects being mentioned about the lack of justice in your own society.
1. I didn't say I "raise cash" for Reprieve - I said I give cash. Your questioning of "whether it is true or not" is not received well.
2. You have presumed (understandably) that because I support Reprieve that I must therefore be against the death penalty. For personal reasons (the murder of a close family member) I am undecided because I am biased. What I am clear about is the need for a fair trial and access to a decent defence when people's lives are at risk. I'm not going to debate Singapore's judicial system simply because I have insufficient knowledge of it compared to my understanding of the US process.
My posts in this thread have not been to defend Singapore - but have been about my reaction to the ease with which you appear to feel it appropriate to introduce your perceptions about unfairness in other societies in a thread about a bloke going to Singapore for a weekend - but seem grumpy about the defects being mentioned about the lack of justice in your own society.
I am sorry to hear of your experience with regards to your family member.
I am confused as to how you can speak about Singapore Justice if you, as per your own post, have 'insufficient' knowledge about it. If you do, you will find they executed so many people as to become the leading nation in per capital executions in the world. Besides, if you are not going to debate Singapore's judicial system, then I fail to see the point in dragging US judicial system into this specific thread. If you feel strongly about US judicial system, start a new thread and talk away on it as much as you like. This thread was about Singapore, hence my posts have relevence. And I have lots of knowledge about Singapore Justice, or specifically the lack thereof.
It is SPECIFICALLY for a 'bloke' (a 'guy' I think) going to Singapore for a weekend' that I sounded a warning. One needs to watch their bags including carry-on like a hawk to avoid being hanged: that is a very relevent point for a visitor to Singapore.
If you care to research other boards about travel safety and security, you find threads about US TSA and their stupidity where I have contributed in the past. I did not commit the faux pas of raising the Singapore or UK justice system in those US threads.
You have assumed that I live in US and hence referred to it as 'my own society'. You do not know where I live and if I hold multiple nationalities and so 'my own society' is a vague term. And again, I have no need to defend all US laws as I do not agree with all of them. And lack of justice is a common factor in all societies, at various points in time, including yours.
Nov 4, 2011, 12:41 pm
#84
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You did not say that you give cash: you said you 'stump up' cash. I am not aware of any such verb, maybe a more precise definition would be a good idea?
I am sorry to hear of your experience with regards to your family member.
I am confused as to how you can speak about Singapore Justice if you, as per your own post, have 'insufficient' knowledge about it. If you do, you will find they executed so many people as to become the leading nation in per capital executions in the world. Besides, if you are not going to debate Singapore's judicial system, then I fail to see the point in dragging US judicial system into this specific thread. If you feel strongly about US judicial system, start a new thread and talk away on it as much as you like. This thread was about Singapore, hence my posts have relevence. And I have lots of knowledge about Singapore Justice, or specifically the lack thereof.
It is SPECIFICALLY for a 'bloke' (a 'guy' I think) going to Singapore for a weekend' that I sounded a warning. One needs to watch their bags including carry-on like a hawk to avoid being hanged: that is a very relevent point for a visitor to Singapore.
If you care to research other boards about travel safety and security, you find threads about US TSA and their stupidity where I have contributed in the past. I did not commit the faux pas of raising the Singapore or UK justice system in those US threads.
You have assumed that I live in US and hence referred to it as 'my own society'. You do not know where I live and if I hold multiple nationalities and so 'my own society' is a vague term. And again, I have no need to defend all US laws as I do not agree with all of them. And lack of justice is a common factor in all societies, at various points in time, including yours.
I am sorry to hear of your experience with regards to your family member.
I am confused as to how you can speak about Singapore Justice if you, as per your own post, have 'insufficient' knowledge about it. If you do, you will find they executed so many people as to become the leading nation in per capital executions in the world. Besides, if you are not going to debate Singapore's judicial system, then I fail to see the point in dragging US judicial system into this specific thread. If you feel strongly about US judicial system, start a new thread and talk away on it as much as you like. This thread was about Singapore, hence my posts have relevence. And I have lots of knowledge about Singapore Justice, or specifically the lack thereof.
It is SPECIFICALLY for a 'bloke' (a 'guy' I think) going to Singapore for a weekend' that I sounded a warning. One needs to watch their bags including carry-on like a hawk to avoid being hanged: that is a very relevent point for a visitor to Singapore.
If you care to research other boards about travel safety and security, you find threads about US TSA and their stupidity where I have contributed in the past. I did not commit the faux pas of raising the Singapore or UK justice system in those US threads.
You have assumed that I live in US and hence referred to it as 'my own society'. You do not know where I live and if I hold multiple nationalities and so 'my own society' is a vague term. And again, I have no need to defend all US laws as I do not agree with all of them. And lack of justice is a common factor in all societies, at various points in time, including yours.
I presumed you lived where we established in another thread from your handle ie "White Plains". I apologise if I misunderstood.
I think when posts get this pompous and rude - it's time to cut the exchange!
Last edited by uk1; Nov 4, 2011 at 12:47 pm
Nov 5, 2011, 6:20 am
#86
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I disagree with you, but I did not mean to come off as rude or pompous. I regret if that is the case.
Nov 5, 2011, 8:26 am
#87
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I am sure, these laws and enforcement make Singapore safe for Singaporeans and tourists alike. When you come to Singapore, I hope you will have a fun time exploring what this sunny island has to offer and mingle with Singaporeans.
Last edited by tycosiao; Nov 5, 2011 at 8:28 am Reason: Edited to remove political views.
Nov 5, 2011, 8:27 am
#88
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Jan 2, 2012, 9:09 pm
#90
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I love going to Botanical Gardens and try to do it wherever I go in the world. There is just something so nice about wandering through those lovely places. A couple of my favorites are the Royal Botanical Gardens in Sydney and Kew Gardens in London.