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Miles and status expirations during coronavirus situation

Miles and status expirations during coronavirus situation

Old Sep 28, 22, 9:51 pm
  #106  
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Singapore
Programs: SIA Solitaire PPS, OZ Asiana Club, CX MPC, IHG Royal Amb, Bonvoy Gold, Hilton Hhonor Gold
Posts: 2,134
Originally Posted by jphripjah View Post
Why not?

They advertised miles won't expire in 2022.

How I do the web chat?
Miles will not expire if they have not been used. The campaign mechanics apply for only non-used miles that are expiring.

There are fair bit of discussion here in the Telegram chat group on this matter:
https://t.me/milelion

You can do webchat here:
https://www.singaporeair.com/en_UK/s...s-the-chatbot/

Just type "chat online" to be connected to the online agent.
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hclee01 is offline  
Old Sep 28, 22, 9:56 pm
  #107  
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 5,572
Originally Posted by jphripjah View Post
I'm the midst of an odd debate with Singapore Airlines.

I booked a redemption award for 39,000 miles in May.

I voluntarily canceled the booking in July.

I did not get 39,000 miles.

I only got about 15,000 miles back, and my account statement reflects -24,000 due to expiration of miles.

I have called the US number a few times, and I'm usually told the redemption agents are unavailable.

Today I got a hold of a redemption agent who at first was adamant that my miles expired.

I pointed out that Singapore has announced that no miles would expire in 2022 and she said that's just for unused miles, once you use them then they can still expire if you cancel the redemption ticket.

That sounds like nonsense to me. The Singapore Airlines announcement in January was that "no miles will expire in 2022," it seems unreasonable that they would now tell me that my miles . . . expired in 2022.

https://mainlymiles.com/2022/01/13/s...-january-2023/

I argued a bit more and she said she would "escalate" this but no guarantee I would get the miles as she still seems to think this a is a righteous forfeiture and expiration of my miles due to my voluntarily cancellation of my ticket.

Any advice here? Has anyone dealt with this? They can be right, can they?
By chance, was your flight departing and/or returning to the U.S? If yes, you could try a DOT complaint. I brought Singapore to their knees several years ago when all other avenues had failed.
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Old Sep 28, 22, 11:17 pm
  #108  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: SIN (LEJ once a year)
Programs: SQ, LH, BA, IHG Diamond AMB, HH Gold, SLH Indulged, Accor Gold, Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 6,664
Originally Posted by jphripjah View Post
Why not?

They advertised miles won't expire in 2022.

How I do the web chat?
Fair enough that you are unhappy as the advertising could be considered somewhat misleading. However, the fact remains that as per the detailed rules (T&Cs) the policy is the way that hclee01 described it and sadly the agent was correct in what he / she stated. Is it a nice rule? No, certainly not in my book and it has led to many bad surprises for folks like you that took the "big headline" from SIA at face value and didn't consider that there may be an "if" attached to it somewhere down in the T&Cs so to say.

I hope you get some goodwill extended, but the success rate for that reported by others has the "winners" against SQ in the minority, sadly. Good luck though.
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Last edited by demue; Sep 28, 22 at 11:38 pm
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Old Sep 28, 22, 11:45 pm
  #109  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Programs: Hilton Diamond, IHG Spire Ambassador, Radisson Gold, Hyatt Discoverist
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Originally Posted by demue View Post
Fair enough that you are unhappy as the advertising could be considered somewhat misleading. However, the fact remains that as per the detailed rules (T&Cs) the policy is the way that hclee01 described it and sadly the agent was correct in what he / she stated. Is it a nice rule? No, certainly not in my book and it has led to many bad surprises for folks like you that took the "big headline" from SIA at face value and didn't consider that there may be an "if" attached to it somewhere down in the T&Cs so to say.

I hope you get some goodwill extended, but the success rate for that reported by others has the "winners" against SQ in the minority, sadly. Good luck though.
Is there a link to these T&Cs?

I wouldn't say that "no miles will expire in 2022" was an announcement that "could be considered somewhat misleading."

It's quite clear what they promised. It's just a matter of whether they will honor it.

There are pretty detailed FAQs here, nothing about miles expiring if you make a booking and then cancel it:

https://www.singaporeair.com/en_UK/u...020renewal-kf/
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Old Sep 28, 22, 11:50 pm
  #110  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: SIN (LEJ once a year)
Programs: SQ, LH, BA, IHG Diamond AMB, HH Gold, SLH Indulged, Accor Gold, Hyatt Discoverist
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I'm with you and all the power to you to get this pushed through, though you chose to take the headline message at face value without expecting that there may be an * (asterix) somewhere or some "but if" built in as part of the details. Did SQ do a good job stating that clearly, I don't think so and you got a valid point that the commonly linked extension policy wordings on the SIA website don't state this at all. Just that arguing this one with non-empowered CSRs could become a test of your patience. Good luck either way.

Last edited by demue; Sep 28, 22 at 11:55 pm
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Old Sep 28, 22, 11:52 pm
  #111  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Programs: Hilton Diamond, IHG Spire Ambassador, Radisson Gold, Hyatt Discoverist
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Originally Posted by demue View Post
I'm with you and all the power to you to get this pushed through, though you chose to take the headline message at face value without expecting that there may be an * (asterix) somewhere or some "but if" built in as part of the details. Did SQ do a good job stating that clearly, I don't think so, but arguing this one with non-empowered CSRs could become a test of your patience. Good luck either way.
No, I did't take the "headline message" at face value. Their press release was paragraphs long, and they also had FAQs on their website. There was no hint anywhere that they would try the "we didn't mean what we actually said" gambit.
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Old Sep 29, 22, 12:13 am
  #112  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: SIN (LEJ once a year)
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Posts: 6,664
My guess is that SQ will argue with the standard KF T&Cs that are to be considered in conjunction with the extensions.

I will not be able to use an award ticket that I redeemed with my KrisFlyer miles. Will my KrisFlyer miles and airport taxes be refunded?Yes, they can be refunded if your miles and award tickets/upgrades are still valid at the point of refund.
In a very convoluted way this means that in order to benefit from the extension, the miles first need to be in your account. Upon cancellation, first they need to "hit" your account and then benefit from the extension. Is that clear? Of course not, I'm just sharing what I think SQ will try to say to not have to refund your lost miles.

Maybe push them via DOT as you seems US based if they don't make an "exception" out of goodwill. You do seem to have good spirit and stamina so I'm hopeful you can do it .

Last edited by demue; Sep 29, 22 at 12:25 am
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Old Sep 29, 22, 12:42 am
  #113  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Originally Posted by demue View Post
My guess is that SQ will argue with the standard KF T&Cs that are to be considered in conjunction with the extensions.


In a very convoluted way this means that in order to benefit from the extension, the miles first need to be in your account. Upon cancellation, first they need to "hit" your account and then benefit from the extension. Is that clear? Of course not, I'm just sharing what I think SQ will try to say to not have to refund your lost miles.

Maybe push them via DOT as you seems US based if they don't make an "exception" out of goodwill. You do seem to have good spirit and stamina so I'm hopeful you can do it .
Oh I forgot to answer your question before. It was a flight from SIN to KTM so a DOT claim won't work I'm afraid. I appreciate your suggestions though.

I'm guessing what happened here is that my miles were set to expire in June. I booked in May. Had I canceled in May, I'm guessing my miles would have been reinstated and then extended/not expired.

So it's not an issue of "only unused miles can be extended" i guess it's more "only miles sitting in your account during expiration month get extended."

Miles that are committed to a reservation and not in your account on your expiration date (or expiration month) don't get extended.

There of course isn't a logical business or customer service reason for this, other than "that's how our computer system works."
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Old Sep 29, 22, 1:05 am
  #114  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: CGK SIN PER ORD
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Posts: 2,800
I was in this situation as well by cancelling my award ticket and only credited back the miles that have not yet expired. Difference is from reading various blogs, I understood that miles that were due to expire between the time my award ticket was purchased and subsequently cancelled would not be reinstated.

I did not argue on this and accepted it.

Not siding with SQ on this but their miles extension and elite status extensions have been very generous. I lost all my GA status and miles in the past 2 years
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Old Sep 29, 22, 1:51 am
  #115  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: SIN (LEJ once a year)
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Originally Posted by jphripjah View Post
There of course isn't a logical business or customer service reason for this, other than "that's how our computer system works."
I think you may be onto something there if one was to speculate. Still can't hurt to argue with your initial line of reasoning as it is more than reasonable and communications from SIA were entirely lacking on this aspect, even if they had just clarified the "existing" rule as per KF T&Cs.

Personally, I would give it a push and see if some goodwill comes from it, but I wouldn't waste too much of my time on it in the end. Though this coming from someone who chased for 10 months for the refund of a 250 SGD Eco ticket under Covid refund policy (just poor execution of the refund process, not like SIA refused it) the "too much time" part may be relative, haha.

In this forum, IIRC, I'm only aware of one very tenacious fellow FTer that managed to get his miles reinstated / credited back that had previously expired in a booking. YMMV.
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Old Oct 12, 22, 7:21 am
  #116  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 799
https://mainlymiles.com/2022/10/12/c...-january-2023/

“KrisFlyer miles expiring from January 2023 will no longer be eligible for complimentary extension as part of our Covid-19 membership support measures. Please be reminded to redeem your miles before they expire.”
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Old Oct 12, 22, 7:42 am
  #117  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Anywhere
Posts: 5,942
Originally Posted by Sandeep1 View Post
If yes, you could try a DOT complaint. I brought Singapore to their knees several years ago when all other avenues had failed.
Would you share this? Intrigued to know what happened and how...
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Old Oct 13, 22, 9:20 pm
  #118  
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 5,572
Originally Posted by carrotjuice View Post
Would you share this? Intrigued to know what happened and how...
In a nutshell, had an F flight LAX-NRT-SIN. On the first leg, I woke up to the realization that the power had gone out. TVs weren't working and there were some issues with certain types of food as well. The main issue though was with the family next to me. Kids weren't using headphones, they were blasting their personal devices. I said something to a crew member who agreed and told the family. Parents said they would use headphones when TVs were back (yeah that's a head-scratcher). Toward the end of the flight, SQ offered some of their crappy vouchers to be used in their store (no thanks). Tried to work it out with SQ several times and they refused to exchange miles for the vouchers. After a while, had enough, and went the DOT route. Within a few weeks, SQ contacted me and offered me 50k miles in exchange for their vouchers worth 400 SGD or so.
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Old Oct 13, 22, 10:12 pm
  #119  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Anywhere
Posts: 5,942
Originally Posted by jphripjah View Post
I pointed out that Singapore has announced that no miles would expire in 2022 and she said that's just for unused miles, once you use them then they can still expire if you cancel the redemption ticket.

That sounds like nonsense to me. The Singapore Airlines announcement in January was that "no miles will expire in 2022," it seems unreasonable that they would now tell me that my miles . . . expired in 2022.
Agree that's nonsensical why miles that have been used on a booking are considered "expired" whereas those that weren't can have their validity extended. Suspect it's because SQ is too lazy to do anything about their systems - honestly it's not that difficult to programme, just run a weekly script and locate any such "expired" miles and reinstate accordingly.

Unfortunately in Singapore, people have kinda accepted that "it is what it is" - including many of the miles and points blogs, that don't bother (or have been unsuccessful) to challenge the senselessness of SQ's approach.

Let us know if you have better luck or, as Sandeep1 has alluded to, mount a DOT challenge that potentially can set a precedent on the issue for others.
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Old Oct 13, 22, 10:14 pm
  #120  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Anywhere
Posts: 5,942
Originally Posted by Sandeep1 View Post
In a nutshell, had an F flight LAX-NRT-SIN. On the first leg, I woke up to the realization that the power had gone out. TVs weren't working and there were some issues with certain types of food as well. The main issue though was with the family next to me. Kids weren't using headphones, they were blasting their personal devices. I said something to a crew member who agreed and told the family. Parents said they would use headphones when TVs were back (yeah that's a head-scratcher). Toward the end of the flight, SQ offered some of their crappy vouchers to be used in their store (no thanks). Tried to work it out with SQ several times and they refused to exchange miles for the vouchers. After a while, had enough, and went the DOT route. Within a few weeks, SQ contacted me and offered me 50k miles in exchange for their vouchers worth 400 SGD or so.
Not in any way defending the parents, perhaps they didn't have ear pieces that could plug into their devices.

50K miles is a good outcome for you, it's worth at least 2X the 400 SGD of vouchers that otherwise compel you to buy something that you don't need from Krisshop.
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