gnomey

do SQ restrict certain routing and redemption due to married segment issues? i have read it happens for SQ metal itinerary, so i guess it applies for star alliance itinerary as well?

i am trying to do a routing like the following
AAA-SIN-CCC-USA

AAA is another city in SE Asia, so same zone as SIN
CCC is transit point

unfortunately, i must do SQ metal for SIN-CCC and another star alliance carrier for CCC-USA, due to availability issues.

when I search online, i can get SIN-CCC-USA to show up at 105,500 krisflyer miles for business class

however I am unable to get AAA-SIN-CCC-USA to show up
I can get AAA-SIN to show up separately, so i know this leg (SQ metal) is available.
I just cannot string them altogether

when I called in, the KF agent claimed that they will not be able to combined them together either, due to married segment logic - not sure is it agent is unable, or unwilling.

I am willing to HUCA if this agent was misinformed, or another option I am thinking is to have the SIN-CCC-USA put on hold first then call back again later to add AAA-SIN as the preceding leg

has anyone encountered such issue before? how did you resolve?
is it possible to ticket such an itinerary in one PNR, so that I only pay 105,500 miles?

thank you

p/s: one thing i should mention is, AAA-SIN-USA is actually available as a through ticket. In this case, the entire itinerary is SQ metal, and no transit at CCC is needed.
the only reason I am not booking it (yet) is bc this itinerary is only available in Economy for now, but WL for Business

sbs2716g

Very common. SQ limit the amount of such redemption. Because it is not worthwhile for them. Basically for such redemption they are giving away the 1st leg FOC or cheaply. So the availability is very limited.

gnomey

CCC is TPE

i dont see any availability via HKG or NRT for my target day currently, so unfortunately not an option

gnomey

ok, bummer then
i guess i will just have to decide whether i want to pay cash for the first leg.

Unionruler

Try instructing them to look for AAA-SIN standalone first, then add SIN-CCC-final dest, you should get what you want.

freed0m

What is AAA? It could be due to backtrack.

If AAA is north of Singapore, AAA-SIN-TPE may not be valid. e.g. BKK-SIN-TPE is not allowed, however BKK-SIN-LAX is allowed.

you can try CGK/DPS-SIN-TPE-USA to see whether it can price the ticket.

gnomey

yeah, thanks. i gonna try calling another time to see if i get diff outcome



this is a very good idea

so i tried different AAA in an attempt to generate a through *A ticket, via SIN/TPE (ie. AAA-SIN-TPE-USA), and i get the following result


"AAA" that works in generating through-ticket online, via SIN/TPE
CGK (CGK-SIN-TPE-USA is the only itinerary that shows up)


"AAA" that does not work in generating through-ticket online, via SIN/TPE
BWN (error msg)
PEN (error msg)
KUL (error msg)
SUB (error msg)


"AAA" that works in generating through-ticket online, but via TPE only (so naturally all the below flights are BR metal only, which is a better routing)
BKK
HAN
SGN
MNL
DPS


can you see any rationale as to why the above occur?

why does through ticketing via SIN/TPE only work for CGK, but does not work for BWN/PEN/KUL/SUB?
while BWN/PEN/KUL is a little "backtracking" since it is north of SIN
CGK and SUB are not that far from each other.
(i have double checked that SUB-SIN in business have available space, on both its twice-daily flights, if booked separately)

i thought silkair metal might be a factor, but i dont think so, after looking at the route/destinations here https://www.singaporeair.com/en_UK/u.../where-we-fly/ and which AAA cities appear not to work.

gnomey

I then decide to investigate the following 4 cities further - BWN, PEN, KUL, SUB,
but this time, I test them for economy *A redemption
I get the following results

BWN-SIN-USA shows up as economy (all SQ)
PEN-SIN-USA shows up as economy (all SQ)
KUL-TPE-USA shows up as economy (all BR)
SUB-SIN-USA shows up as economy (SQ and UA)

freed0m

You need give us more information e.g. date and USA city to get better result.

SUB-SIN-TPE-USA should work. SUB-SIN has fewer flights, you need check the timing whether connection is still available or whether still on the same date.

gnomey

of course i did check date (+/- 1 day) for the first leg to ensure the connection time still makes sense.
nope, allowing leeway to that still cant force SUB-SIN-TPE-USA to show up.

it is clearly intentional that SUB-SIN-TPE-USA is forbidden (and DPS-SIN-TPE-USA likely has the same fate as well), while CGK-SIN-TPE-USA is allowed (for inexplicable reasons)
this has been replicated across several dates
you can use Oct 9 as example.

USA is any west coast city, but in this test case it is SEA, as availability to SFO/LAX is not as limited for the dates i check such that you have to resort to transiting via TPE
Additionally, you have way more *A options heading to SFO/LAX which interfere with results.
Ultimately if all things are equal, the choice of which west coast gateway shouldnt matter

lokijuh

Maybe availability related? I found this routing in economy (and surprisingly it also threw SUB-SIN-SYD-LAX):

freed0m

DPS-SIN-TPE-SEA business class

SUB-SIN has limited flights and timing is not good. so probably has more to do with timing than forbidden routes.

lokijuh

Yes, SUB, KUL & PEN were all mentioned by OP. SilkAir operates 67%, ~70% and 100% of most weekday flights on said routes, and of course these are not permitted in star alliance award.

gnomey

Based on what i read on post #11 , 12, 13, i think this is what is happening


1) While KF allows long overnight transit at SIN when it is exclusively a SQ metal award, for some reason, it doesnt extend the same consistently to a *A award, even when non-MI availability exist.

* SUB-SIN-(overnight)-TPE-SEA is not allowed. (longer overnight at SIN bc the earliest SUB-SIN flight cannot connect to TPE-SEA)
* DPS-SIN-(overnight)-TPE-SEA is allowed (shorter overnight at SIN)
* SUB-SIN-TPE-LAX is allowed (no overnight at SIN, all same-day flights)


2) I am still not sure why BWN/KUL cant work as origins for *A award, even when non-MI availability exist.
It is allowed to act as origin when the routing is solely SQ metal, but then not allowed when it is *A award
So it is considered backtracking when routing is *A, but not considered backtracking when it is SQ metal only?
And then we have the case where SUB-SIN-SYD-LAX is allowed, where there is backtracking with SYD-LAX being clearly UA
Strange


Anyway, it looks to me that the rules around *A award are way more stringent but then not consistently applied.

Thank you for working through this exercise with me

lokijuh

Actually, this one being permitted is indeed consistent with prior understanding, the rest might not be. The routing is only 40% more than the SUB-LAX great circle distance. There is a magic number that pushes an itinerary into backtracking, no one knows what that is, but 50% is often mooted figure for star alliance awards (i.e. >150% of great circle distance between the two ports).