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SQ is scamming me out of almost 57,000 Krisflyer Miles

SQ is scamming me out of almost 57,000 Krisflyer Miles

Old Jul 31, 19, 6:10 am
  #1  
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SQ is scamming me out of almost 57,000 Krisflyer Miles

edit: post removed

Last edited by thadeusd3; Aug 1, 19 at 4:53 am
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Old Jul 31, 19, 9:15 am
  #2  
 
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Originally Posted by thadeusd3 View Post
Hoping someone could help here. I have nearly 57k krisflyer miles, expiring TONIGHT, that I'm unable to use! I called SQ to redeem 4 roundtrip tix on UA to Hawaii last week. The agent informed me that my account is being audited, so I'm unable to book anything. I've provided the information to release the audit on Monday, 7.29, but they still have not released the lock. Since my account is in limbo and the miles expire in the very near future, I requested an extension on my miles to allow time for booking once the audit has been released. Unfortunately, all of the reps I've emailed/called said the extension cannot be applied since my account is in a locked state.

Here's the kicker - The account is being audited from a promotion all the way in 2015. When I registered for my Krisflyer account, I used a promo code that was shared on all the travel blogs that gave me 5k miles for creating an account. This promo code was supposedly for Australians only (I'm American) but I didn't see that in the terms and conditions. I've given them approval to rescind the 5k miles and remove the audit, but they're dragging their feet. Very convenient time to audit my account.

Do I have any recourse?



"Kicker". "scamming me".... When you are the one who tried using a promo code (ever heard of the famous car rental promo codes being inappropriately used by non-eligible people and the horror stories?), and without making sure it was valid for your particular case. Even worse if you already knew from the blogs you plucked it off that it was for Australians but "didn't see" or perhaps couldn't locate the correct provision setting that out in the T&Cs.

You played with fire and tried to make a quick one from the system. You got burnt and still think you're being "scammed". And you even think they need your "approval" to rescind the miles. Wow. Nope, they don't need your "approval" at all to audit your account nor rescind the miles. Sorry but the world (and SQ) does not revolve around you (or America). Sit tight and pray hard would be your best bet. And pray harder that your account is not terminated. In any event, doubt SQ would be too concerned if they lost you (if they ever had) as a customer.

Last edited by tth_ben; Aug 1, 19 at 5:30 am Reason: To quote original post for context (which the OP has deleted)
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Old Aug 7, 19, 9:46 am
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Originally Posted by tth_ben View Post

"Kicker". "scamming me".... When you are the one who tried using a promo code (ever heard of the famous car rental promo codes being inappropriately used by non-eligible people and the horror stories?), and without making sure it was valid for your particular case. Even worse if you already knew from the blogs you plucked it off that it was for Australians but "didn't see" or perhaps couldn't locate the correct provision setting that out in the T&Cs.

You played with fire and tried to make a quick one from the system. You got burnt and still think you're being "scammed". And you even think they need your "approval" to rescind the miles. Wow. Nope, they don't need your "approval" at all to audit your account nor rescind the miles. Sorry but the world (and SQ) does not revolve around you (or America). Sit tight and pray hard would be your best bet. And pray harder that your account is not terminated. In any event, doubt SQ would be too concerned if they lost you (if they ever had) as a customer.

haha! Loved reading every last word of this one!
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Old Aug 8, 19, 10:47 pm
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Hilarious post.
Who scammed who?
SQ won’t bat an eyelid to your case.
Just a lesson learned, so move on!
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Old Aug 13, 19, 6:29 am
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I think it is fair to say I've got a low opinion of the whole situation:
-OP played fast and loose with a (semi-)targeted offer;
-SQ didn't maintain good controls on the offer (and may or may not have bothered to write T&C to deal with their intended limitations, or otherwise didn't filter at the time of the offer);
-OP waited until close to the last minute to try and redeem miles;
-SQ chose to wait to resolve issues surrounding the initial offer (even though the offer that "went rogue" was from several years ago); and
-SQ is unable/unwilling to permit an extension of miles (even apparently via the "pay to extend" provision) while they have it locked.

Basically, if SQ wants to actually confiscate the miles/shut the account, that's one thing. But they're coming across as passive-aggressive on this one and it seems wrong to have miles expire while the account is "under audit" (edit: This is particularly true if they determine that there's no wrongdoing or nothing else that would trigger any penalties).

By way of an analogy, when the VX/AS merger was going through, the stated final date of flight availability on VS wound up being a day that the VX system went into maintenance, but this wasn't stated in advance. So on the one hand, one shouldn't have waited until that last day to patch a trip together; on the other hand, there's something inherently wrong about "Our final day is X but you can't actually use the miles that way on that day because of Y, which we did not mention in the notice that the final day was X."

Last edited by GrayAnderson; Aug 13, 19 at 6:58 am
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Old Sep 12, 19, 4:36 am
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Originally Posted by GrayAnderson View Post
Basically, if SQ wants to actually confiscate the miles/shut the account, that's one thing. But they're coming across as passive-aggressive on this one and it seems wrong to have miles expire while the account is "under audit" (edit: This is particularly true if they determine that there's no wrongdoing or nothing else that would trigger any penalties).
Leap of logic.

Why is it wrong to have miles expire when the account is under audit? Is not one of the purposes of the audit in fact for SQ to decide whether there is any wrongdoing or inappropriate action by the OP that would then trigger any penalties? And therefore one bears the risk of that happening. Unless of course the audit stems from a clearly frivolous or vexatious premise, which is obviously not the case here. Your analogy is completely irrelevant since in that case it would seem that the airline would have known, or reasonably should have known about when and how the internal system was going for maintenance. To apply it here, you will effectively need to say that SQ's systems had already flagged and/or an SQ staff knew all along, even before the OP presumably got active on his Krisflyer account and wanted to use the miles, that he had tried to game the system but that SQ had decided that it would not do anything about it, and would only tell the OP when he tried to redeem his miles.

Do you know how many thousands upon thousands of KF (many of them dormant/inactive) there are? I'll be surprised if there's someone dedicated to trawling the account activity in these accounts all the time (as opposed to random audits).

What a load of leap.
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Old Sep 12, 19, 4:39 am
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So, any update?
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Old Sep 12, 19, 4:51 am
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Originally Posted by LondonElite View Post
So, any update?
OP seems to have deleted their post after the expiry deadline as described in a quote of the original. Read into it what you will.
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Old Sep 12, 19, 8:05 am
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Originally Posted by tth_ben View Post
Leap of logic.

Why is it wrong to have miles expire when the account is under audit? Is not one of the purposes of the audit in fact for SQ to decide whether there is any wrongdoing or inappropriate action by the OP that would then trigger any penalties? And therefore one bears the risk of that happening. Unless of course the audit stems from a clearly frivolous or vexatious premise, which is obviously not the case here. Your analogy is completely irrelevant since in that case it would seem that the airline would have known, or reasonably should have known about when and how the internal system was going for maintenance. To apply it here, you will effectively need to say that SQ's systems had already flagged and/or an SQ staff knew all along, even before the OP presumably got active on his Krisflyer account and wanted to use the miles, that he had tried to game the system but that SQ had decided that it would not do anything about it, and would only tell the OP when he tried to redeem his miles.

Do you know how many thousands upon thousands of KF (many of them dormant/inactive) there are? I'll be surprised if there's someone dedicated to trawling the account activity in these accounts all the time (as opposed to random audits).

What a load of leap.
So, let's consider a few options:
(1) If the audit is random (or semi-random) and not related to suspected wrongdoing, then the process should arguably be fairly quick (and if KF can't make it quick, they should automatically extend miles that are "tied up" due to the audit). Making the ability to redeem miles subject to the availability of space is one thing, but also leaving it up to the whims of random auditing on the edge of miles expiry would be outright capricious. So if the audit is random, KF should have an automatic "miles extension" protocol for that sort of thing (particularly if the audit process tends to take more than a few days given the nature of KF's expiry rules). This would be bad on KF (particularly given the *ahem* interesting/convenient timing on the cusp of a large block of miles expiring). As an addendum to this, there's no indication as to when KF actually placed the account "under audit". More on that in a moment. However, based on what little I've read about FFP auditing practices, this being a "random" thing seems unlikely.
(2) Ok, let's presume that the audit is not random. We can now break this into two subcategories:
(2a) KF didn't know there was an issue and something recent triggered the audit ("worst timing in the world" plus it not being random). This is probably the only case where I think KF's conduct is not dubious, but it still comes off as capricious per (1).
(2b) KF knew there was an issue with OP's account (presumably pertaining to the apparent 2015 promo) but said nothing and simply left it "under audit" until he tried to redeem miles. I'd argue that this is probably the worst of the options since it potentially implies that KF let miles be deposited into an account that it had no intention of letting them be redeemed. Put simply, if KF was able to flag a bunch of accounts related to that promotion I have to wonder why they didn't send out a mass contact to the affected folks when they figured out there was a problem and yank the miles (or accounts) at the time? Please note that in order to do a US-Hawaii redemption in Y for four seats, OP would have had to have had at least 140k miles in the account (for J it would be 240k miles), so it seems likely that OP had at least 83k miles expiring subsequently, so the odds are pretty good of a continuing relationship here (rather than this being the result of a one-time earn).

One thing that smells funny here, by the way, is that the promo in question was, as stated by OP, in 2015. Ok, fine, but KF has a miles expiry timing of three years. Even accounting for a paid extension, miles from a promotion during 2015 would have expired no later than June 30, 2019. OP made no mention of having done a paid extension (and states that they were trying to extend the miles in conjunction with this mess), so that puts the expiry at December 31, 2018 (or earlier). So there's no way that the "tainted miles" should have even been part of the pot anymore (at which point I'd argue that, presuming that the miles in question did expire, KF should just move on). Auditing the status of "dead" miles after-the-fact seems like rather a pointless exercise (and if those miles got redeemed earlier...well, that's a more complicated area)...but it also implies, at least to my read, that KF put the account under audit seven or eight months earlier and simply didn't say or do anything to alert OP.

I do think that, even if we stipulate that KF didn't need to extend the miles temporarily while they were taking their own sweet time handling an audit which might have been "in process" for some time prior to OP attempting to use the miles, their apparent inability to simply apply the "miles side" of the extension fee (e.g. you can spend $12 or 1200 miles per 10k miles to extend them...so 7200 miles for the 57k pile) strikes me as an IT problem that really ought to be "their problem". I get that this isn't how things play out in reality sometimes, but it definitely still grates.

Basically, if KF ultimately cans/canned OP's account? Then fine, it doesn't really matter one way or another. But to penalize a user by effectively forcing the expiration of miles due to an audit they presumably hadn't even told the user they were the subject of just feels wrong in any other case, and that goes double if it is somehow a random audit with the Worst Timing Ever since that runs a serious risk of someone getting caught up in airline bureaucracy.

===== ===== ===== ===== =====

Of course, all of this does involve one specific leap: That OP told us something resembling the whole story and that he wasn't previously contacted in a timely manner by KF but ignored the contact (though I'd be open, in turn, to the possibility of KF somehow failing to make it clear what the email was about). It is entirely possible that more is going on, but I can only judge what is in front of me and take reasonable deductions, presumptions, and so on from there.
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