Racial Profiling on SQ
Mar 4, 2019, 6:56 pm
#16
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,158
Europeans (white) people generally get better treatment in Asia, but on this SQ flight in Premium Economy it was taken to the next level - I am India, and did not order any special meal - yet the FA comes over and says we will serve veg meals shorts, ummm what does that have to do with me?
You should consider that not all Indians are frequently overseas. They may not be familiar with the service procedures onboard and may not know that normally you would need to order Veg meals on international airlines. Therefore SQ also provides Veg meals on India flights for people who didn't pre-order. I rather would see that the FA tried to ask you if you prefer veg/non-veg option. I would not consider that unreasonable or racist.
The meal service for veg starts usually before the other standard meals, so the crew would confirm your preference in advance.
But, I observed that some FAs seems to think that all Europeans are hard drinkers and they (usually male FA's) are quite pushy with serving alcohol to Caucasians. Racial profiling?
Mar 4, 2019, 7:21 pm
#17
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 304
My Canadian born Asian coworker has problems getting ice water on US based airlines going to and combing back from Asia.
She likes the window seat and doesn't have a naturally loud voice. If she says water they'll give her water without ice. If she says ice water, the FAs typically reach for the hot water because they can't hear her and just assume hot.
She likes the window seat and doesn't have a naturally loud voice. If she says water they'll give her water without ice. If she says ice water, the FAs typically reach for the hot water because they can't hear her and just assume hot.
Mar 4, 2019, 7:32 pm
#18
Join Date: Sep 2005
Programs: Lifetime *G (MP), Lifetime PE (Bonvoy)
Posts: 1,465
Mar 4, 2019, 8:16 pm
#20
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 969
My experience flying more than a dozen different airlines and spending a lot of time in countries where I am not a "local", is that people seem to have cultural pre-dispositions that are in their subconscious, but something gives them some reason to make an assumption about someone else.
Without getting into anthropology, sociology and psychographics, and since I don't know the ethnic background of the flight attendant or their age, is it possible that they made an assumption based on their own background instead of their training from SQ?
And if the FA wrongly assumed that because you are Indian, you had ordered a vegetarian meal, why didn't you say "I did not order a special meal, thanks"?
And when she offered champagne to the other pax, why didn't you just say, "Oh, I'd like some as well, thanks"?
As for white people getting treated better in Asia, well here's a data point for you: Based on my experiences in some Asian countries, the top of the food chain is an Asian male, followed by a white male, followed by an Asian female if she is with an Asian male. White-looking females are at the bottom of the list.
I was ignored in an expensive restaurant in HKG once. No server came to my table, but tables on either side were well-attended. I got up, found a server, ordered my meal and ate. No one came to take the dishes or offer tea or dessert. I couldn't get anyone to even bring me my bill. So I quietly got up, asked to speak to manager, told him my experience. I could have just as easily walked out and not paid because I was just not important to them. But that's not who I am. I told him about the experience and lack of attention or service. Of course he apologized, he offered not to charge me, he gave me his card and so on.
This was a teachable moment. I knew that if I handled it with some grace, he would remember and perhaps never let his staff do this again to someone else, regardless of their own assumptions about which customers are more important.
I had an even worse experience with my airline concierge in PVG. I am the one with 100K and MM status and her job was to meet me and such. Immediately on arrival, she focused her attention on my younger male colleague. But I understand some of how things work in China. It wasn't important enough for me to try and change her behaviour. Because of my work, i actually found her behavior to be interesting.
You assumed that because you are Indian, the SQ FA treated you with service that was lacking and had incorrect assumptions about you.
I realize this is hindsight, but you should have spoken up respectfully, or asked to speak to the Inflight Manager (Cabin Crew).
And I guarantee you this, had you and I been somewhere in parts of Asia, SE Asia, perhaps India and even in Europe, staff would have likely served you first. Had you been sitting next to me in business class on a flight, I guarantee that you would have been asked first.
IMHO, SQ crews are diverse and educated and gracious based on my experiences. Perhaps on your next SQ flight, you can express your concerns should there be any mistaken assumptions by crews.
Happy travels.
Without getting into anthropology, sociology and psychographics, and since I don't know the ethnic background of the flight attendant or their age, is it possible that they made an assumption based on their own background instead of their training from SQ?
And if the FA wrongly assumed that because you are Indian, you had ordered a vegetarian meal, why didn't you say "I did not order a special meal, thanks"?
And when she offered champagne to the other pax, why didn't you just say, "Oh, I'd like some as well, thanks"?
As for white people getting treated better in Asia, well here's a data point for you: Based on my experiences in some Asian countries, the top of the food chain is an Asian male, followed by a white male, followed by an Asian female if she is with an Asian male. White-looking females are at the bottom of the list.
I was ignored in an expensive restaurant in HKG once. No server came to my table, but tables on either side were well-attended. I got up, found a server, ordered my meal and ate. No one came to take the dishes or offer tea or dessert. I couldn't get anyone to even bring me my bill. So I quietly got up, asked to speak to manager, told him my experience. I could have just as easily walked out and not paid because I was just not important to them. But that's not who I am. I told him about the experience and lack of attention or service. Of course he apologized, he offered not to charge me, he gave me his card and so on.
This was a teachable moment. I knew that if I handled it with some grace, he would remember and perhaps never let his staff do this again to someone else, regardless of their own assumptions about which customers are more important.
I had an even worse experience with my airline concierge in PVG. I am the one with 100K and MM status and her job was to meet me and such. Immediately on arrival, she focused her attention on my younger male colleague. But I understand some of how things work in China. It wasn't important enough for me to try and change her behaviour. Because of my work, i actually found her behavior to be interesting.
You assumed that because you are Indian, the SQ FA treated you with service that was lacking and had incorrect assumptions about you.
I realize this is hindsight, but you should have spoken up respectfully, or asked to speak to the Inflight Manager (Cabin Crew).
And I guarantee you this, had you and I been somewhere in parts of Asia, SE Asia, perhaps India and even in Europe, staff would have likely served you first. Had you been sitting next to me in business class on a flight, I guarantee that you would have been asked first.
IMHO, SQ crews are diverse and educated and gracious based on my experiences. Perhaps on your next SQ flight, you can express your concerns should there be any mistaken assumptions by crews.
Happy travels.
Transferring between SQ flights, I had to go through security, as one does at SIN. I was wearing an open lightweight shirt over a vest. I was told to remove the shirt before going through the metal detector, which ticked me off because only wearing a vest and, as a lady of "some years", I didn't want to show so much skin. "Only one layer" or something to the effect, I was told. I went to take off my shirt but saw a few Indian ladies walking through who were not required to remove their "top" layers (they were wearing another top underneath like I was). I asked why weren't they required to remove their top layers and was told "traditional dress - no need to check" (or words to that effect). Perhaps I should have complained about racism, and tried to argue that a shirt is traditional dress for a white person, but it's never going to go that way.
So while you were offered a vegetarian meal but not champagne, the OP can know that Indian women receive preferential treatment at SIN security.
Mar 4, 2019, 8:26 pm
#21
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: SIN and Medway, UK (so... LCY/LGW/BRU)
Programs: A3 *G, BA OWS, IHG Diamond Amb, Bonvoy Plat
Posts: 749
To the comment that racial profiling and racism isn't the same, cheers to that.
To the OP, I feel that the cabin crew in this case just applied her cultural sensitivities training wrongly - she shouldn't have assumed right off the bat that you were vegetarian and the like. But it is also difficult to do one's job properly without making certain assumptions about stuff (more on that later). Yet certainly it musn't be racial profiling, at least not to the extent you perceive it to be - a security agent once demanded to see my passport (certainly my yellow skin colour is rather different from the rest) in the Schengen zone of ATH and thought I didn't have the required visa and called up her supervisors and held on to my passport much longer than I was comfortable with (am Singaporean, so don't need visa, and she promptly apologised for it later). Or when the Aegean crew doesn't offer me Greek newspapers (which is an assumption of me not speaking Greek - that was right), or when the China Eastern crew starts off a convo with me in English (which is making an assumption of me not knowing Mandarin Chinese - which was wrong). Those are innocuous assumptions, and in this situation - all you had to do was to correct her. Rather, the inaction on your part says equally much about you than about her. What's the point of not making a sound then and then making a kerfuffle on FlyerTalk later?
To the OP, I feel that the cabin crew in this case just applied her cultural sensitivities training wrongly - she shouldn't have assumed right off the bat that you were vegetarian and the like. But it is also difficult to do one's job properly without making certain assumptions about stuff (more on that later). Yet certainly it musn't be racial profiling, at least not to the extent you perceive it to be - a security agent once demanded to see my passport (certainly my yellow skin colour is rather different from the rest) in the Schengen zone of ATH and thought I didn't have the required visa and called up her supervisors and held on to my passport much longer than I was comfortable with (am Singaporean, so don't need visa, and she promptly apologised for it later). Or when the Aegean crew doesn't offer me Greek newspapers (which is an assumption of me not speaking Greek - that was right), or when the China Eastern crew starts off a convo with me in English (which is making an assumption of me not knowing Mandarin Chinese - which was wrong). Those are innocuous assumptions, and in this situation - all you had to do was to correct her. Rather, the inaction on your part says equally much about you than about her. What's the point of not making a sound then and then making a kerfuffle on FlyerTalk later?
Mar 4, 2019, 8:39 pm
#22
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: BRU, SIN, PEK
Programs: SQ TPP, LH SEN
Posts: 3,235
As a white (older) female I can attest to this. Invisibility is not always a super power you want.
Transferring between SQ flights, I had to go through security, as one does at SIN. I was wearing an open lightweight shirt over a vest. I was told to remove the shirt before going through the metal detector, which ticked me off because only wearing a vest and, as a lady of "some years", I didn't want to show so much skin. "Only one layer" or something to the effect, I was told. I went to take off my shirt but saw a few Indian ladies walking through who were not required to remove their "top" layers (they were wearing another top underneath like I was). I asked why weren't they required to remove their top layers and was told "traditional dress - no need to check" (or words to that effect). Perhaps I should have complained about racism, and tried to argue that a shirt is traditional dress for a white person, but it's never going to go that way.
So while you were offered a vegetarian meal but not champagne, the OP can know that Indian women receive preferential treatment at SIN security.
Transferring between SQ flights, I had to go through security, as one does at SIN. I was wearing an open lightweight shirt over a vest. I was told to remove the shirt before going through the metal detector, which ticked me off because only wearing a vest and, as a lady of "some years", I didn't want to show so much skin. "Only one layer" or something to the effect, I was told. I went to take off my shirt but saw a few Indian ladies walking through who were not required to remove their "top" layers (they were wearing another top underneath like I was). I asked why weren't they required to remove their top layers and was told "traditional dress - no need to check" (or words to that effect). Perhaps I should have complained about racism, and tried to argue that a shirt is traditional dress for a white person, but it's never going to go that way.
So while you were offered a vegetarian meal but not champagne, the OP can know that Indian women receive preferential treatment at SIN security.
I would blame this on stupid SOP rules and interpretations and not racial profiling.
Mar 4, 2019, 8:41 pm
#23
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
Some days, the community comes together to help those on diverted flights who are stranded in countries they can't enter.
Some days, the community helps those who are flying SQ, but don't know how to transfer at SIN
Some days, the community makes suggestions and posts photos about BTC options for certain routes and flights.
And some days, members come to vent and/or seek feedback from others. It really doesn't matter why. As long as everyone is respectful, we should offer guidance or solutions if we can, or at the very least, listen.
Mar 4, 2019, 9:28 pm
#24
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: SIN
Programs: TK-G | Accor P | SQ-G | Marriott T
Posts: 3,828
I have been flying SQ for number of years, and flew them again this past weekend.
Europeans (white) people generally get better treatment in Asia, but on this SQ flight in Premium Economy it was taken to the next level - I am India, and did not order any special meal - yet the FA comes over and says we will serve veg meals shorts, ummm what does that have to do with me?
She offered Champagne to my co-passenger, and not to me ... He was European
Has anyone else observed this?
Europeans (white) people generally get better treatment in Asia, but on this SQ flight in Premium Economy it was taken to the next level - I am India, and did not order any special meal - yet the FA comes over and says we will serve veg meals shorts, ummm what does that have to do with me?
She offered Champagne to my co-passenger, and not to me ... He was European
Has anyone else observed this?
"special" meal is loaded only by request. This is why I cannot believe this was really happening....
Oh yeah just to add, on one of my flight, the FA gave my special meal to the wrong person and that guy happen to be white
Mar 4, 2019, 9:49 pm
#25
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: SYD
Programs: UA, QF, Marriott (Titanium)
Posts: 134
Thank you everyone - I welcome the heat on this social forum.
Clearly this is a touchy subject, and my #1 learning is - crew being people, make errors and may be have some biases ... and guess people of all hue, color, gender perceive to be treated differently than the masses.
Thanks again - learn something new everyday!
Clearly this is a touchy subject, and my #1 learning is - crew being people, make errors and may be have some biases ... and guess people of all hue, color, gender perceive to be treated differently than the masses.
Thanks again - learn something new everyday!
Mar 4, 2019, 11:52 pm
#26
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Singapore
Programs: QF LTG, SQ EGTP, Bonvoy LTG
Posts: 4,847
On some routes (eg to India) the "special" meals often have a cart of their own. I can understand exactly why a flight attendant might assume Veg option, if on a route where a lot of such meals have been pre-ordered.
Mar 5, 2019, 12:40 am
#27
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: SIN
Programs: TK-G | Accor P | SQ-G | Marriott T
Posts: 3,828
For example
SIN-TPE will have western selection or oriental (read Chinese) selection.
SIN-CGK/DPS, again western selection or "local" (Indonesian style) selection. of course they do not call it western or indo selection,
HND-SIN, I think they have 3 selections, western, japanese and oriental?
So I pressume Indian bound flight should have veggie option by default?
Mar 5, 2019, 1:04 am
#28
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: SIN, SFO, LON
Programs: SQ:TPPS, Marriott: Titanium
Posts: 442
As for white people getting treated better in Asia, well here's a data point for you: Based on my experiences in some Asian countries, the top of the food chain is an Asian male, followed by a white male, followed by an Asian female if she is with an Asian male. White-looking females are at the bottom of the list.
Mar 5, 2019, 2:01 am
#30
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Singapore
Programs: QF LTG, SQ EGTP, Bonvoy LTG
Posts: 4,847
They were offering it in PE on our flights to/from LAX recently (the non-stops). But my partner is Solitaire, so difficult to tell objectively and didn't look around to see if it was being offered to others, but I am 90% sure it was.