50+ hour delay on Scoot - TR713 - Groundhog day - any advice?
Dec 19, 2018, 3:50 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2018
Programs: Star Alliance, Starwood Plat
Posts: 2
50+ hour delay on Scoot - TR713 - Groundhog day - any advice?
Hi there, long time lurker but new poster.
My apologies if this is the wrong forum. But I would be so grateful for any help at this point.
I'm on TR713 from Athens to Singapore and so far we've boarded and disembarked three times in the last 50+ hours. Not super important at this point but for posterity's sake - here's a brief summary of our adventure:
- Boarding attempt no 1 - 12.25 18th Dec with 1 hour delay: First we were told there was a technical glitch with the system that handles country-wise airspace approvals. They tried to reattempt the approvals, but then we were told that one country did not provide approval on time. Fine. So we disembark after sitting 2.5 hours on the tarmac
- Boarding attempt no 2 - 4.30 18th Dec: Then we were herded back onto the plane. Then it turned out they had run out of operational window and it wasn't permissible for us to take off anymore. One passenger hypothesized this had to do with shift times for the crew (?)
- Boarding attempt no 3 - 11.00 19th Dec - 24 hours in: Late 18th Dec they emailed us regarding a change of departure time to 11AM today. Fine. We come back to the airport, board the flight. All seems to go well. Safety announcements and all. Then we're asked to disembark. Something about legal approval missing from Athens. Another passenger (possibly better informed than I) hypothesized this had to do with needing a change of aircraft being required to fly through Iranian airspace (?).
So 50 odd hours and counting, I continue to be in Athens. The other passengers and I have been mostly polite and understanding of the situation, but getting information of any kind from Scoot staff through any medium (Scoot online forms, messenger, Facebook, phones, gate, staff, email) is like pulling teeth. For example:
- Ground staff do not provide public announcements in either Greek or English even about practical logistics such as how to find a bus and which hotel are we going to.
- When ground staff communicate, they communicate inconsistently; one cites one time, another cites something else. One Scoot uniformed character cited a particular hotel and was called out by the bus driver as lying.
- Passengers stumble into queues for transport / hotel / etc. by happenstance and by asking other travelers.
- Logistics are poorly managed. Another fun one - They only have access to 2 buses (!?) so it takes multiple hours to offload the entire passenger set by bus into faraway hotels, despite availability at airport hotels nearby. On top of that, no care is taken to organise us into pre-set groups or even simply to let us know where it is we're going.
More saliently, yet another example: it is now midnight here in Athens. Yet there is still no clarity on when we should expect to leave our hotel for the airport tomorrow, or whether there will be in fact a flight. I called downstairs to reception and they said they weren't sure when a flight might be, and that they've been given no Scoot point of contact to direct these questions too. They said a bus might leave tomorrow at 10AM but no flight to their knowledge has been scheduled.
Please, anyone reading this: Do you have any suggestions for how to relay this to someone who might listen at Scoot? It would be really helpful to even just have one staff point of contact so that we aren't constantly haphazardly asking each other in a game of Chinese whispers.
Finally for those who are in the know: Are there additional protections that apply post the 48 hour mark? I've read the EU rights of passenger act but to my understanding - which admittedly is limited - it's not clear whether additional protections or rights kick in past a certain time or whether new avenues open up for escalation to local authorities.
Many thanks in advance all! Starting to feel like Groundhog Day or Terminal..
My apologies if this is the wrong forum. But I would be so grateful for any help at this point.
I'm on TR713 from Athens to Singapore and so far we've boarded and disembarked three times in the last 50+ hours. Not super important at this point but for posterity's sake - here's a brief summary of our adventure:
- Boarding attempt no 1 - 12.25 18th Dec with 1 hour delay: First we were told there was a technical glitch with the system that handles country-wise airspace approvals. They tried to reattempt the approvals, but then we were told that one country did not provide approval on time. Fine. So we disembark after sitting 2.5 hours on the tarmac
- Boarding attempt no 2 - 4.30 18th Dec: Then we were herded back onto the plane. Then it turned out they had run out of operational window and it wasn't permissible for us to take off anymore. One passenger hypothesized this had to do with shift times for the crew (?)
- Boarding attempt no 3 - 11.00 19th Dec - 24 hours in: Late 18th Dec they emailed us regarding a change of departure time to 11AM today. Fine. We come back to the airport, board the flight. All seems to go well. Safety announcements and all. Then we're asked to disembark. Something about legal approval missing from Athens. Another passenger (possibly better informed than I) hypothesized this had to do with needing a change of aircraft being required to fly through Iranian airspace (?).
So 50 odd hours and counting, I continue to be in Athens. The other passengers and I have been mostly polite and understanding of the situation, but getting information of any kind from Scoot staff through any medium (Scoot online forms, messenger, Facebook, phones, gate, staff, email) is like pulling teeth. For example:
- Ground staff do not provide public announcements in either Greek or English even about practical logistics such as how to find a bus and which hotel are we going to.
- When ground staff communicate, they communicate inconsistently; one cites one time, another cites something else. One Scoot uniformed character cited a particular hotel and was called out by the bus driver as lying.
- Passengers stumble into queues for transport / hotel / etc. by happenstance and by asking other travelers.
- Logistics are poorly managed. Another fun one - They only have access to 2 buses (!?) so it takes multiple hours to offload the entire passenger set by bus into faraway hotels, despite availability at airport hotels nearby. On top of that, no care is taken to organise us into pre-set groups or even simply to let us know where it is we're going.
More saliently, yet another example: it is now midnight here in Athens. Yet there is still no clarity on when we should expect to leave our hotel for the airport tomorrow, or whether there will be in fact a flight. I called downstairs to reception and they said they weren't sure when a flight might be, and that they've been given no Scoot point of contact to direct these questions too. They said a bus might leave tomorrow at 10AM but no flight to their knowledge has been scheduled.
Please, anyone reading this: Do you have any suggestions for how to relay this to someone who might listen at Scoot? It would be really helpful to even just have one staff point of contact so that we aren't constantly haphazardly asking each other in a game of Chinese whispers.
Finally for those who are in the know: Are there additional protections that apply post the 48 hour mark? I've read the EU rights of passenger act but to my understanding - which admittedly is limited - it's not clear whether additional protections or rights kick in past a certain time or whether new avenues open up for escalation to local authorities.
Many thanks in advance all! Starting to feel like Groundhog Day or Terminal..
Dec 19, 2018, 8:42 pm
#2
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,380
https://www.flightstats.com/v2/fligh...htId=983746910
Estimated Gate Departure changed from Dec-19-2018 11:00 AM to Dec-20-2018 1:35 PM
tail: 9V-OFI
no data on expertflyer. don't see any spare plane being sent to ATH (TR or SQ)
1) do you have travel insurance/protection? (additional paid policy, credit card?)
2) you can choose to abandon the ticket (get a refund), and pay out of pocket for a new ticket (maybe covered by your insurance in (1)
3) they need to offer you 600 eur under EC261. use that to buy a ticket?
(more than 600eur for a oneway)
https://www.google.com/flights#flt=A...;sd:1;t:f;tt:o
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapo...-flight-delays
The flight is currently scheduled for 1.05pm on Thursday.
Estimated Gate Departure changed from Dec-19-2018 11:00 AM to Dec-20-2018 1:35 PM
tail: 9V-OFI
no data on expertflyer. don't see any spare plane being sent to ATH (TR or SQ)
1) do you have travel insurance/protection? (additional paid policy, credit card?)
2) you can choose to abandon the ticket (get a refund), and pay out of pocket for a new ticket (maybe covered by your insurance in (1)
3) they need to offer you 600 eur under EC261. use that to buy a ticket?
(more than 600eur for a oneway)
https://www.google.com/flights#flt=A...;sd:1;t:f;tt:o
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapo...-flight-delays
The flight is currently scheduled for 1.05pm on Thursday.
Last edited by paperwastage; Dec 19, 2018 at 9:20 pm
Dec 19, 2018, 9:25 pm
#3
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......and EC261 imposes a duty of care which they seem to be doing even if not doing well. If they're providing hotel rooms and meals, plus covering the cost of transportation (or arranging it) between hotel and airport, your only recourse would be to make arrangements independently on your own for something reasonable and submit receipts for reimbursement (and hope that some/most of your expenses are taken care off between Scoot and whatever travel insurance you might have. Doing the independent route would avoid the long lines, but risk paying for most/all of room and board yourself. You could also miss the flight when it finally does depart if you're away from the group, especially since communication seems to be bad.
BTW, don't be shocked if there's no meal service on the flight when it really does go. You should plan to have a hearty breakfast at the hotel and possibly bring snacks for the flight. [Airplane meals can only be stored on board etc. for a certain number of hours before they're considered unsafe to serve.] I recall an overnight IROPs diversion experience due to MX where our arrival was more than a day late and on the flight late the next morning, FAs weren't even able to serve coffee in FC, although part of the problem might have been that the airline didn't serve our diversion airport at all, so arrangements were at the mercy of a partner's limited ground staff.
BTW, don't be shocked if there's no meal service on the flight when it really does go. You should plan to have a hearty breakfast at the hotel and possibly bring snacks for the flight. [Airplane meals can only be stored on board etc. for a certain number of hours before they're considered unsafe to serve.] I recall an overnight IROPs diversion experience due to MX where our arrival was more than a day late and on the flight late the next morning, FAs weren't even able to serve coffee in FC, although part of the problem might have been that the airline didn't serve our diversion airport at all, so arrangements were at the mercy of a partner's limited ground staff.
Dec 20, 2018, 12:07 am
#4
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2018
Programs: Star Alliance, Starwood Plat
Posts: 2
I called downstairs to the hotel reception just now and was told that the flight time is at 7PM and that buses might be leaving at 3.30PM. Seems like Scoot also texted us late last night citing a 4PM flight time.
Thanks both, appreciate the thoughts! paperwastage - rebooking is an option I'll check again into today. Not too many direct routes so would have to go indirect.
MSPeconomist, you've nailed my fear exactly - I considered the independent route, I do have travel insurance so some expenses should be covered. But with the limited communication here, seems like if there's a good chance I'll miss the flight if I go rogue.
Any other suggestions are appreciated.
Thanks both, appreciate the thoughts! paperwastage - rebooking is an option I'll check again into today. Not too many direct routes so would have to go indirect.
MSPeconomist, you've nailed my fear exactly - I considered the independent route, I do have travel insurance so some expenses should be covered. But with the limited communication here, seems like if there's a good chance I'll miss the flight if I go rogue.
Any other suggestions are appreciated.
Dec 20, 2018, 5:28 am
#5
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,380
The flight was scheduled for 1.05pm on Thursday (7.05pm Singapore time).
But in an updated statement on Thursday afternoon, Scoot said that the flight is now set to depart at 7pm. It added that it will update passengers directly if there are any changes.
But in an updated statement on Thursday afternoon, Scoot said that the flight is now set to depart at 7pm. It added that it will update passengers directly if there are any changes.
Dec 20, 2018, 1:49 pm
#7
Join Date: Dec 2007
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To OP and rest of you - welcome to discover Scoot and the rest of Asian LCC/ULCC and their treatments of passengers in case or IROPS.
Unfortunately I don't have time now (waiting for boarding), but you can search in Singapore/Other Asian airlines stories about how Scoot left people stranded in HKG and MEL for >48h and did nothing.
Your only recourse is to try to get media attention (TV, because they ignore all social and printed media) on this matter and if possible - ask your local lawmakers in parliament to rise the issue.
Or, if you have travel insurance, claim your expenses from them, forget this experience and never again fly with Scoot.
Dec 20, 2018, 2:16 pm
#8
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
Dec 20, 2018, 2:40 pm
#9
Join Date: Sep 2015
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TR713 departs the EU (Athen, more specifically).
Dec 20, 2018, 6:51 pm
#10
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
If it's a clear-cut case, it might be worth taking to small claims court. Scoot wouldn't be the first airline to have an aircraft impounded by Court order after failing to pay due to compensation (It's infrequent but has happened over the years). Ironically, that would result in the airline having to pay out more compensation (it can't really claim that their failure to follow a Court's order to pay compensation was an extraordinary circumstance).
TR713 departs the EU (Athen, more specifically).
TR713 departs the EU (Athen, more specifically).
Dec 20, 2018, 11:33 pm
#12
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Dec 21, 2018, 9:38 pm
#14
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In EU? Scoot will just ignore it. And if you try to do in Singapore, they will look at you if you just landed from Mars.
Albeit, Greek courts are probably very slow, if the OP wins a judgement, that judgement can be enforced (by seizing Scoot assets in Greece).
My recommendation would be to go through a EC261 claim agency.
Dec 22, 2018, 12:39 am
#15
Join Date: Oct 2007
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My recommendation would be "forget it"!!! Unless you want to go through several levels of courts hearings and loose most of what you win at the end... You might even end in the negative... LCC and Greek courts are the worst combination you can wish for...