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-   -   The 'Best credit cards for KF miles accrual' master thread (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/singapore-airlines-krisflyer/1076196-best-credit-cards-kf-miles-accrual-master-thread.html)

shuigao Jan 28, 20 2:34 am


Originally Posted by Kilian Zoll (Post 31991805)
Are people generally following this approach or does anyone have any alternative ideas? Keen to hear people's thoughts.

Well, I for one belong to the slow kids class and can't manage the mental load of juggling a dozen cards in a dozen scenarios to maximise 4mpd, so I stick with 1-2 general all-rounder cards.

At the moment I use Citi Prestige and Citi Premiermiles (for double dipping with grabpay/grabrewards).

Kilian Zoll Jan 28, 20 7:15 am


Originally Posted by shuigao (Post 32002767)
Well, I for one belong to the slow kids class and can't manage the mental load of juggling a dozen cards in a dozen scenarios to maximise 4mpd, so I stick with 1-2 general all-rounder cards.

At the moment I use Citi Prestige and Citi Premiermiles (for double dipping with grabpay/grabrewards).

What's Citi Prestige like in Singapore? They just announced some pretty massive cuts to the 4th Night Free benefit in Hong Kong, only allowing prepaid rates and no suite bookings. Is this a thing in SG as well? Definitely looking at this card for general spending.

shuigao Jan 28, 20 8:22 pm


Originally Posted by Kilian Zoll (Post 32003364)
What's Citi Prestige like in Singapore?

The benefit cuts haven't been as bad as some other countries, but yes they've been cut gradually too. 4NF is still unlimited times per year and doesn't have the prepaid rate limitations you mentioned, but recently they've starting disallowing it for multi-bedroom rooms, and resorts (strangely enough). Free limousine benefit was hit ridiculously badly (from $1.5k foreign spending to $20.0k spending per quarter).

All in all the unlimited priority pass and still good enough 4NF are enough for me to stick around for now though. Oh and the almost monthly 1-for-1 4 hands dinners.

Lightraveller Jan 28, 20 10:44 pm

Are there any Miles credit cards that Reward us for paying car Insurance and Road tax or are these excluded too?

Kilian Zoll Jan 29, 20 12:44 am


Originally Posted by shuigao (Post 32006203)
The benefit cuts haven't been as bad as some other countries, but yes they've been cut gradually too. 4NF is still unlimited times per year and doesn't have the prepaid rate limitations you mentioned, but recently they've starting disallowing it for multi-bedroom rooms, and resorts (strangely enough). Free limousine benefit was hit ridiculously badly (from $1.5k foreign spending to $20.0k spending per quarter).

All in all the unlimited priority pass and still good enough 4NF are enough for me to stick around for now though. Oh and the almost monthly 1-for-1 4 hands dinners.

That does seem better than the HK version -- and those 4 hands dinners do sounds good. The annual fee is also lower for the SG issued card.

aster Jan 30, 20 1:05 pm


Originally Posted by Kilian Zoll (Post 31998012)
That being said, are there any MS opportunities in SG these days?

I think the whole Fevo (or M1 prepaid Mastercard) scheme was the last good one for putting the DBS WWMC to good use with its 4x miles for online spend eventually being used for physical transactions.


Originally Posted by Kilian Zoll (Post 31998012)
A huge portion of my spend is in foreign countries and/or currencies -- the UOB Visa Signature seems like a good option for this purpose, despite the $2,000 per statement month cap.

I'm not a fan of being charged extra for foreign currency transactions, at best I will use a card that has 0% bank fees on conversions and strictly applies the MC rate. I'm also considering using these multi-currency cards that allow transactions to be deducted directly from your multi-currency account - have you given these a go yet?


Originally Posted by Kilian Zoll (Post 31998012)
Will definitely check out the PRVI Miles Amex - thank you for raising that! Can I use this card to pay for transit/MRT as well or is that limited to Visa/Mastercards?

This is strictly for Visa/MC but it also seems time-limited until the end of Feb, so hopefully I'm not missing out on this for too long.:)

Apart from the 20k miles bonus for racking up $50k spend, the 6 miles/$ for Expedia transactions isn't bad either, especially since you are paying in SGD.

carrotjuice Jan 30, 20 2:27 pm


Originally Posted by aster (Post 32013007)
I'm not a fan of being charged extra for foreign currency transactions, at best I will use a card that has 0% bank fees on conversions and strictly applies the MC rate.

Why won’t you? Because by paying the ~3% fee you’re effectively buying miles at ~1 cent per mile (SGD) whereas they’re worth ~2 CPM (I know they may be worth differently to different people, but this is the general value), effectively a good arbitrage?

shuigao Jan 30, 20 7:25 pm


Originally Posted by aster (Post 32013007)
I'm not a fan of being charged extra for foreign currency transactions, at best I will use a card that has 0% bank fees on conversions and strictly applies the MC rate.

Is there even such a card available to us in SG?

fone Jan 30, 20 7:39 pm


Originally Posted by shuigao (Post 32014259)
Is there even such a card available to us in SG?

Cards that gives no rewards, like Youtrip or Revolut. Save on the exchange rate at the expense of rewards points. However, less than S$0.01 per mile is great value for me, I will continue using 4mpd cards for foreign currency transactions that take cards.

aster Jan 31, 20 7:14 am


Originally Posted by carrotjuice (Post 32013297)
Why won’t you? Because by paying the ~3% fee you’re effectively buying miles at ~1 cent per mile (SGD) whereas they’re worth ~2 CPM (I know they may be worth differently to different people, but this is the general value), effectively a good arbitrage?

This is a tough cookie to crack. If I spend $100 and get 400 miles then at 2 cents/mile I've just received $8 bucks' worth of miles, so kind of like a 8% return (if you value miles at a cent a mile then obviously that would be halved). If I pay a 3% fee ($3) for the privilege due to fx conversion then it becomes a 5% return.

The broader question is how much are those miles really worth nowadays? A single flight from SIN to Europe in biz is 93,000 miles. At 2c/mile that is still $1,860 worth of miles for going 1-way. I think if I was to look hard and plan well ahead I could probably score return flights in biz at $4,000 return (though probably not on SQ), so it seems that something slightly above 2 cents is the true worth of a mile. But this doesn't make it a deal... just base value, as in it would cost the same to buy the ticket outright as it would to purchase miles at that rate and get a redemption instead.

Getting back to the hypothetical 3% fx fee, it does indeed seem like good value, especially compared to a card with say no fees and no miles. Because here you would either get nothing for that purchase... or you would simply be able to purchase 400 miles at less than a cent a mile (3/4 of a cent in fact).


Originally Posted by shuigao (Post 32014259)
Is there even such a card available to us in SG?

Not sure. There are a few in Australila that just go with the MC rate with 0% fx fees from the bank itself, with the most prominent being the Citi Plus account (their basic, fee-free everyday account) debit card. I've seen quite a few in Europe too. Of course you are still paying the card issuer's fx rates, with the plus side being that the bank isn't charging anything extra here. But at the same time you can also get a multicurrency card like the HSBC one in Singapore and do your own fx beforehand. Also not a bad option as their fx margins have shrunk in recent times (probably because the main SG banks are starting to offer multicurrency cards).

jagmeets Jan 31, 20 7:44 am

Jumped on to the SCB VI (non Priority Banking version -that one, I’ve had for a while)- I reckon a decent ‘Everyday’ use card, if you’re not worried about hitting the 2k/month spend to get the bonus earns...1.4/3mi per S$ (hefty FX fee, but then, 3miles), a close to ‘fair’ rounding, and ability to buy miles @S$0.0143/mile.

shuigao Feb 1, 20 6:12 am


Originally Posted by Kilian Zoll (Post 32006720)
That does seem better than the HK version -- and those 4 hands dinners do sounds good. The annual fee is also lower for the SG issued card.

I spoke too soon, we are getting the ‘enhancements’ from March onwards too. No suites, no multi-room rooms, prepaid rates only. Sucks.

Lightraveller Feb 3, 20 11:54 pm

Value of a Mile
 

Originally Posted by aster (Post 32015793)
This is a tough cookie to crack. If I spend $100 and get 400 miles then at 2 cents/mile I've just received $8 bucks' worth of miles, so kind of like a 8% return (if you value miles at a cent a mile then obviously that would be halved). If I pay a 3% fee ($3) for the privilege due to fx conversion then it becomes a 5% return.

The broader question is how much are those miles really worth nowadays? A single flight from SIN to Europe in biz is 93,000 miles. At 2c/mile that is still $1,860 worth of miles for going 1-way. I think if I was to look hard and plan well ahead I could probably score return flights in biz at $4,000 return (though probably not on SQ), so it seems that something slightly above 2 cents is the true worth of a mile. But this doesn't make it a deal... just base value, as in it would cost the same to buy the ticket outright as it would to purchase miles at that rate and get a redemption instead.

Getting back to the hypothetical 3% fx fee, it does indeed seem like good value, especially compared to a card with say no fees and no miles. Because here you would either get nothing for that purchase... or you would simply be able to purchase 400 miles at less than a cent a mile (3/4 of a cent in fact).



Not sure. There are a few in Australila that just go with the MC rate with 0% fx fees from the bank itself, with the most prominent being the Citi Plus account (their basic, fee-free everyday account) debit card. I've seen quite a few in Europe too. Of course you are still paying the card issuer's fx rates, with the plus side being that the bank isn't charging anything extra here. But at the same time you can also get a multicurrency card like the HSBC one in Singapore and do your own fx beforehand. Also not a bad option as their fx margins have shrunk in recent times (probably because the main SG banks are starting to offer multicurrency cards).

Talking about the value of a Mile, I am wondering If It is worth using Cardup or City Pay All to pay my condo management fees. I own several units so it does add up to a fair bit. Also was wondering, If I do use these services and pay the transaction fees, apart from earning Points can they be counted as part of minimum spend for promotion bonus too? Does anyone have experience with this? Would appreciate the info

fone Feb 4, 20 12:03 am


Originally Posted by Lightraveller (Post 32029960)
Talking about the value of a Mile, I am wondering If It is worth using Cardup or City Pay All to pay my condo management fees. I own several units so it does add up to a fair bit. Also was wondering, If I do use these services and pay the transaction fees, apart from earning Points can they be counted as part of minimum spend for promotion bonus too? Does anyone have experience with this? Would appreciate the info

Most of the time, yes, count towards any other promotion.

lokijuh Feb 4, 20 12:21 am


Originally Posted by aster (Post 32015793)
The broader question is how much are those miles really worth nowadays? A single flight from SIN to Europe in biz is 93,000 miles. At 2c/mile that is still $1,860 worth of miles for going 1-way. I think if I was to look hard and plan well ahead I could probably score return flights in biz at $4,000 return (though probably not on SQ), so it seems that something slightly above 2 cents is the true worth of a mile. But this doesn't make it a deal... just base value, as in it would cost the same to buy the ticket outright as it would to purchase miles at that rate and get a redemption instead.

I've come to the conclusion that I won't "buy" miles for more than 1.5c per mile. and I won't redeem until >1.5c/mile. I may get more value and that's a bonus. I base this on not what it costs for a business seat, but what I would be willing to pay for a busines seat. I think that's where people can go wrong. Sure when J class return to SYD/MEL costs $4,500, that's 3.6 c/mile. But if you don't ordinarily, or wouldn't be willing to pay $4,500 to travel to Australia in business, then no point in paying 3.6c/mile ! I'm not sure if it's a coincidence or not, but @1.5c per mile that neutralises the 3% FX fee for foreign transactions on a card (like Citi PM) earning 2 pt/$ on foreign txn.


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