SNA Tower Closing - Covid
Nov 23, 2020, 12:14 pm
#1
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SNA Tower Closing - Covid
Heads up for anyone flying in or out of SNA - John Wayne Airport in Orange County, CA for which WN is a major player at...ATC Tower is closing due to a Covid case and expect delays in and out of that airport as a result.
What happens in this case is that the airport operates as "uncontrolled" for which there are procedures for and many smaller airports operate as but what that means is that SoCal Approach ATC Controllers can only allow into and out air traffic at a much slower measured rate since there are no longer eye in the ground.
Gonna be a mess.
What happens in this case is that the airport operates as "uncontrolled" for which there are procedures for and many smaller airports operate as but what that means is that SoCal Approach ATC Controllers can only allow into and out air traffic at a much slower measured rate since there are no longer eye in the ground.
Gonna be a mess.
Nov 23, 2020, 1:31 pm
#2
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Nov 23, 2020, 2:00 pm
#3
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That statement just says it will be operating "safely" which it will...that does not speak to the operational limitations that will be in place during the peak times of the closure.
Arriving traffic is sequenced in MUCH slower and there is a whole communication procedure that need to happen back to SoCal ATC before that can clear the next plane for an approach
Nov 23, 2020, 2:24 pm
#4
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That statement just says it will be operating "safely" which it will...that does not speak to the operational limitations that will be in place during the peak times of the closure.
Arriving traffic is sequenced in MUCH slower and there is a whole communication procedure that need to happen back to SoCal ATC before that can clear the next plane for an approach
Arriving traffic is sequenced in MUCH slower and there is a whole communication procedure that need to happen back to SoCal ATC before that can clear the next plane for an approach
FAA direct numbers are there for your convenience regarding operational limitations.
Nov 23, 2020, 2:46 pm
#5
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Are you a pilot as well?
Here is the NOTAM (Notice to Airmen) that is issued to us as pilots:
!SNA 11/061 SNA SVC TWR CLSD CLASS C SERVICE NOT AVBL CTC SOCAL APCH AT 800-448-XXXX EXTENSION 2 2011240045-2011240700
SNA Tower is CLOSED. That means no ATC is monitoring operations on the ground at SNA that would be clearing planes for takeoff and landings nor directing ground traffic and the status of the airport reverts to "uncontrolled" (for which there are procedures for that the FAA link you posted references). That happens via pilots having to self announce and IFR sequencing of takeoff and landings by SoCal Approach can only happen at a SIGNIFICANTLY slower rate than normal.
HOPEFULLY they will be able to keep up, but for a major airport like SNA it will most defiantly cause delays if that closure is maintained during peak times.
Here is the NOTAM (Notice to Airmen) that is issued to us as pilots:
!SNA 11/061 SNA SVC TWR CLSD CLASS C SERVICE NOT AVBL CTC SOCAL APCH AT 800-448-XXXX EXTENSION 2 2011240045-2011240700
SNA Tower is CLOSED. That means no ATC is monitoring operations on the ground at SNA that would be clearing planes for takeoff and landings nor directing ground traffic and the status of the airport reverts to "uncontrolled" (for which there are procedures for that the FAA link you posted references). That happens via pilots having to self announce and IFR sequencing of takeoff and landings by SoCal Approach can only happen at a SIGNIFICANTLY slower rate than normal.
HOPEFULLY they will be able to keep up, but for a major airport like SNA it will most defiantly cause delays if that closure is maintained during peak times.
Last edited by PAX62; Nov 23, 2020 at 3:09 pm
Nov 23, 2020, 3:22 pm
#6
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Noob question: is this because it takes them a week to clean the building (the physical tower where the controllers work) or because so many controllers are sick and they don't have people to backfill the positions from other airports?
With total air travel still somewhat less than it would be on a "normal" Thanksgiving week, how bad are the delays at SNA likely to be? Can airlines proactively publish revised flight times for the next few days that meet the required gaps between arrivals and departures?
With total air travel still somewhat less than it would be on a "normal" Thanksgiving week, how bad are the delays at SNA likely to be? Can airlines proactively publish revised flight times for the next few days that meet the required gaps between arrivals and departures?
Nov 23, 2020, 3:38 pm
#7
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Due to necessary training specific to a facility's procedures they can't just throw other controllers in to fill in. Sounds like there have been a few positive cases and have since sanitized the tower and are working with a skeleton crew from those that did not have contact with the controllers that were positive.
Nov 23, 2020, 3:41 pm
#8
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With total air travel still somewhat less than it would be on a "normal" Thanksgiving week, how bad are the delays at SNA likely to be? Can airlines proactively publish revised flight times for the next few days that meet the required gaps between arrivals and departures?
"Disruptions" and "delays" have different meanings and she may have been hairsplitting. But for now, it doesn't appear to be "a mess."
Nov 23, 2020, 4:17 pm
#10
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People, Seriously?
A daily/nightly event for months all over the country. At least a couple of instances recently where 4+/- Centers (identifier starts with a Z) were all ATC Zero in one night.
Your best resource for the Big Picture is here:
https://www.fly.faa.gov/adv/advAdvisoryForm.jsp
Leave the check-boxes as they are; you can change the date drop-down to go backwards for a rolling two weeks.
Click "Show Selected Advisories", the hyperlink next to the advisory number for "Operations Plan" displays The Big Picture. Normally the Operations Plan is updated every 2 hours.
Remember that all times displayed are UTC.
A daily/nightly event for months all over the country. At least a couple of instances recently where 4+/- Centers (identifier starts with a Z) were all ATC Zero in one night.
Your best resource for the Big Picture is here:
https://www.fly.faa.gov/adv/advAdvisoryForm.jsp
Leave the check-boxes as they are; you can change the date drop-down to go backwards for a rolling two weeks.
Click "Show Selected Advisories", the hyperlink next to the advisory number for "Operations Plan" displays The Big Picture. Normally the Operations Plan is updated every 2 hours.
Remember that all times displayed are UTC.
Nov 23, 2020, 4:45 pm
#11
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,868
People, Seriously?
A daily/nightly event for months all over the country. At least a couple of instances recently where 4+/- Centers (identifier starts with a Z) were all ATC Zero in one night.
Your best resource for the Big Picture is here:
https://www.fly.faa.gov/adv/advAdvisoryForm.jsp
Leave the check-boxes as they are; you can change the date drop-down to go backwards for a rolling two weeks.
Click "Show Selected Advisories", the hyperlink next to the advisory number for "Operations Plan" displays The Big Picture. Normally the Operations Plan is updated every 2 hours.
Remember that all times displayed are UTC.
A daily/nightly event for months all over the country. At least a couple of instances recently where 4+/- Centers (identifier starts with a Z) were all ATC Zero in one night.
Your best resource for the Big Picture is here:
https://www.fly.faa.gov/adv/advAdvisoryForm.jsp
Leave the check-boxes as they are; you can change the date drop-down to go backwards for a rolling two weeks.
Click "Show Selected Advisories", the hyperlink next to the advisory number for "Operations Plan" displays The Big Picture. Normally the Operations Plan is updated every 2 hours.
Remember that all times displayed are UTC.
Nov 23, 2020, 5:08 pm
#12
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Blue Ridge, GA
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Nov 23, 2020, 5:16 pm
#13
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,868
That sounds so much more like what I've come to expect. I have been following along with the ATC situation pretty closely. I'm not sure what kind of schedule SNA had been running, but they've been trying NAS wide to run on skeleton crews to attempt to rotate crews to avoid potential exposure between them. Some facilities just plain don't have the staffing for that, so the wrong person testing positive can send a lot of people home to quarantine. I'm glad they've still got the crew to handle the pushes.
Last edited by synergistic; Nov 23, 2020 at 6:25 pm
