Lancerguy

I don't understand how AMEX gets away with treating the customer like dirt.
Had AMEX Biz Plat 2/2016 - 12/2017, downgraded to green. Then I had Green 12/2017 - 02/2019, upgraded to Biz Platinum w/ 50k bonus offer. The annual fee for the Biz Platinum came up on 11/2019, so I downgraded back to Green.

When I downgraded to the green because the fee was due, they clawed back my 50k and then accused me of abusing the system by canceling my card early. That is the biggest load of BS I've ever heard. It's an ANNUAL fee, hence to be charged annually. If anyone was abusive, I would say AMEX abused my relationship by 'pro-rating the annual fee' BS that allowed them to charge me a 2nd annual fee at month 10 instead of month 12.

And on top of that, when I called retention, why didn't they mention "I see you haven't had your card quite a year, you could lose your bonus" or something to that affect, that alone would've swayed me to keep the card. They want you to slip up so they can claw their points back. Indian giver to the extreme. Who wants to be a part of that kind of relationship?

I called in and filed a complaint, they said it would take up to 30 days to have it reviewed. I completely disagree with the way they have handled this. I feel like it's completely intentionally for the upgrade offer to make your AF land in the middle of the year, therefore when a normal person would cancel. Not to mention the devaluing of the program, of course customers want to leave the card, you've dropped all the perks and raised the fee!

PS not a churner, no manufactured spend, just a normal business owner spending ~10k per month across 3 active AMEX cards.

-Frustrated

Happy

Did you downgrade the card BEFORE the 12 months from upgrade have passed?

It is written in the AMEX T&Cs that downgrade before 12 months is one of the reasons to claw back bonus earned from the upgrade.

If you downgrade AFTER 12 months have passed, AND the AF is billed (the closing date of the last statement of the 12 months period), then you downgrade the card - you will get a Pro Rated charge of the card, i.e. 1/12 of the AF, and the remaining of AF would be reversed if it is not paid yet. If it is already paid, you get the refund credited back to the now downgraded card.

All the above is done by the system, generally no human involved - other than the rep you talked to when you called to downgrade, AFTER 12 months are surely passed.

If you downgrade before the next AF is billed / before the 12 months have passed, AMEX has every right to claw back the upgrade bonus, because it is clearly written in the T&Cs since last year. Yeah, almost 2 years by now of such changes.

While the reps could be more proactive to remind you about the terms, but seriously this is NOT their responsibilities but the cardholder's. That is why fully understand the T&Cs are important, Gone are the days when a lot of things can be handled with "one time courtesy" type of things when cardholders accidentally tripped wire.

Lancerguy

I just don't understand how they get away with prorating your annual fee forward to the anniversary of your previous card so they can then charge you a full annual fee part-way into the first year of your new card. That's seems like an extremely shady tactic. It makes it confusing as hell for the consumer, then if you screw up, there is no warning, just instant clawback.

I never screw my customers, I let them if something is going to end poorly for them because I want a positive continued relationship. "It's in the terms" makes it seem like me vs them, I thought we were on the same team, I put spend on their card, they get fees from the transaction, win-win. I have no manufacture spending, I have zero closed cards with American Express, it just seems real crappy of them.

Lancerguy

This, a one time courtesy is exactly the word I was lookin for

Troopers

Would you have preferred it if the AF was billed within the first month of the upgrade (similar to a brand new card)?

Diplomatico

I can see where billing the annual fee based upon the previous card's anniversary date could be confusing to some.

Billing the annual fee from day one of the upgrade - and pro-rating a refund of the remainder of the annual fee for the previous card - may be less confusing since the annual fee date would coincide with the new, upgraded card's anniversary date (and, hence, the word "annual".)

Unfortunately, it sounds as if OP got caught up in the current AMEX mouth-frothing zeal to weed out churners as a result of that confusion.

Troopers

Is this allowed under the card act? What banks assesses the AF day one of a product change?

i suspect but don’t know for sure that it’s allowed. The AF is tied to the account open date, which never changes.

Gig103

I agree, and feel sympathy for OP, but am not sure there's any recourse. Even after reading so many of the threads about this I'm confused what Lancerguy did wrong.

The annual fee for the Biz Platinum came up on 11/2019, so I downgraded back to Green.

I thought after the AF posts was the right time to downgrade or cancel?

Diplomatico

Someone will probably be along to correct me but AFAIK, the CARD Act is primarily concerned with raising fees within the first year of credit card ownership. A product change after two or three years would not meet that criteria.

OP upgraded his biz green card to a biz plat card three months into the second year of his downgraded biz green card (third year of card ownership overall, if I'm reading it correctly.)

He received an upgrade bonus and AMEX applied the annual fee for the upgraded card nine months later (on the anniversary date of the original card.) OP then canceled - but it was only 9 months from the upgrade bonus. Thus, AMEX penalized the OP for not keeping the card for a year after the upgrade bonus was obtained.

mia

Business cards are typically not covered by the C.A.R.D. Act. Businesses are assumed to do basic things such as reading contract terms.

Gig103

As lame as it is, thank you for explaining how it happened.

Happy

You get the benefit of pro-rated AF billed on the upgrade card, well into the original card's anniversary that was 9 months after you upgraded.

So you essentially had 9 months of a Plat card free of AF, and the upgrade bonus.

You then can keep the card for a full year after paying the 1st AF, then decide what you would like to do.

But no, you just want to ride the free period and say audios to the Plat card, while pocketing the bonus.

So you just want to have both ways that only benefit you? And label this as you would be nice to your customers?

It is precisely such behavior that causes AMEX to well define their rules in denying bonus / clawing bonus being awarded, plus put you on the list to receive the Pop Up warning window on the next AMEX card applied, even though you meet all other conditions to earn a bonus.

The argument on the "I spend on their cards, they get fees from the transaction" is such a bogus argument - because, you do not have to spend on their cards. You have plenty of other options to put your spend on. The sole reason you spend on their cards because you Value what you get back from their cards. Dont spin it as a win win thing to justify the "win win" that is more like you win they lose.

AMEX does not charge you the upgrade card's AF on the first or even second month into the upgrade, but to the anniversary of the old card. I dont see how you could ask for keeping the bonus but not keep the card for full 12 months. Cannot have it both ways, especially it is disclosed in no ambiguous languages in the card's T&Cs. If it is not disclosed, then you have ground to complain. But since it is fully disclosed, you really cannot blame AMEX, but yourself not pay attention on the fine prints. Not to mention this is a business card which the card owner should know how to read a contract.

crimsona

When upgrading old SPG to SPG luxury, I definitely got charged the Pro rated annual fee of the 450. At best I got three weeks free since the prorated refund of the old card was calculated by day but the prorated new card was charged on the next billing cycle.

Had op waited until the full year to downgrade, he would get back a prorated refund on the fee too

LondonElite

Sounds like you tried to game the system and lost. All this is spelled out in the T&Cs.

Often1

As I read it, OP beat the fee but got 75% (9 months) of its use. Clawing back the bonus seems only fair and particularly in a business-to-business transaction such as this.

When it's done right, both parties to the transaction make money. When it becomes a loser for one party, the card issuer in this case, I am not sure why anyone expects the issuer to throw good money after bad.