snaxmuppet

I noticed a recent thread where the OP was requesting someone give them a partner card. The thread was removed... quite rightly IMO. Who wouldn't want a free Gold/Silver card? If threads like that were to be allowed then the forum could be overrun with requests for free cards and that defeats the entire object of the forum IMO.

However, it got me thinking... I have heard of several GGL holders that genuinely don't have anyone close to them that they want to give a partner card too. I even had someone I met on a OTP-PHX TP run offer me a Gold card on arriving at PHX but my TP run was for me to get Gold anyway so I declined the kind offer.

What do GGL holders do if they don't have anyone in their family/friends that they want to nominate? Do you go out of your way to find a worthy recipient or just let it expire? What do the BAEC GGL rules say on the matter... can a GGL nominate anyone even if they don't know them?

I ask from a person perspective... I am considering doing more TP runs to get me to GGL but I genuinely don't have anyone close to me that flys much (apart from my wife who is already Silver and doesn't really fly without me anyway!). It isn't just a theoretical question for me.

bisonrav

They expire or you find someone to give them to. Mine went to friends who travel and a colleague at work who had just been posted to the US and was tiring of the middle seat.

orbitmic

It’s the same as lounge guesting. BAEC offers members perks on the basis that only a certain proportion of them will be used and that members will behave reasonably; ie only offer people a valuable (in every sense) benefit if they feel really close to them. Some will have three family members immediately coming to mind, some just one close person needing it or even none. If people behave, the rest will lapse just as we often go to lounges without guests and the net result will match ba’s probabilistic estimates.

if everyone just plays Santa Claus on ba’s dime, offering their ‘free’ gold and silver cards to a random stranger or the pretty unknown seat neighbour they’d love to impress and seduce, the said probabilistic models will just be proved wrong and the benefits reduced accordingly. We are not that many GGLs, but I can assure you that if we all ‘find’ 5 guests to lounge as allowed every time we fly and all gift the three cards, neither of those benefits will stay intact even for a month.

snaxmuppet

Good point.

Rather perversely, I am considering getting to GGL not particular for the benefits. Flying is one of my hobbies. I want to do some more TP runs and I might as well give myself a target!!! But then I have the question of what benefits I would have and how I would personally benefit. I can understand if people say I am mad. May be, but it is a hobby so aren't all hobbies mad to those that don't share the passion? If I get GGL I will likely not have anyone I know that flys often enough to benefit from a partner card. In fact, I only fly 6 or 8 times a year (TP runs excepted) so even I won't get a lot of actual benefits from GGL.

Thanks for the insight

LTN Phobia

Wouldn' you be better off paying to fly F rather than doing a TP run so you will have the benefits that CCR will offer but not cause any waste?

rossmacd

Mine all expire, just like the majority of my GUFs.

Reason being is that the people I know either fly enough to obtain their own status, get some form of status comped through corporate avenues or simply doesn’t fly the airlines that would would mean they get value from a partner card.

It is a good perk in principle, but one I, family, friends or colleagues get close to zero benefit from.

GUFs are the other issue for me - GUFs are only usable on BA plated tickets and BA metal - I fly mostly on AA tickets across the Atlantic, and CX/LX/QR/SQ tickets to the east. I just cannot use them all, and does not thing to drive spend in BA’s direction (except the slice they get from TATL JBA tickets).

orbitmic

I think it's all about the direction of causality. The way FFPs have been designed is that airlines want to reward you 'because' you fly, and in turn, hope that this will encourage you to fly with them rather than competitors even when theirs would not be the most compelling option if there was no FFP to account for. The thing is, in human environments (and probably beyond), almost any causality has at least a small remainder of reverse causation, and therefore, there will always be some people who fly "because" they want to achieve a certain status. That was bound to happen (again, because reverse causation always emerges, somehow, in any situation that has human beings involved, that's the way our minds our wired) but it remains, in all likelihood, a small minority scenario even though it is by nature vastly over-inflated in the context of a web forum that defined itself around the very concept of frequent flyers.

So theoretically, your new status should have come serendipitously due to your increased flying, but you are making the BA model work almost too well (as do many FTers) by saying: why don't I "go for status" since I like flying anyway and it sounds like a nice target. Even with this reverse causation, the assumption would be that you want to achieve that status because somehow, you see advantages or benefits associated with it, be they concrete (e.g. because you want to gift that gold card to someone, because you want the GUFs, because you want to be able to change and cancel awards without fee, because you want access to the better and faster GGL support team, because you want CCR access, etc) or imagined (because you like the idea of being "top tier", because you imagine you might get more upgrades or better treatment in case of IRROPS or problems, because you feel that it's an achievement in its own right, etc). The idea, however, is not that you will necessarily benefit from all of those things, just that some of those are meaningful to you or you would not be aiming for status.

That, in a way, is another formulation of the probabilistic calculation I was talking about earlier, this time at the level of each individual member. I'd venture the suggestion that any one of us who is GGL is quite content with "some" of the (concrete or imagined) advantages that we get and use with some interest, and equally finds some others entirely irrelevant or is unable to almost ever use them. The whole notion that all perks should be useable or relevant to any given member is therefore, in my view, unrealistic, but hopefully, when you read my (much reduced) list above, at least one or two things that I mentioned "clicked" as something that you might be looking forward to.

snaxmuppet

Well, flying F is something I will consider but only if it is a great deal. I have flown F now several times and tbh I am not convinced that it represents value for money unless on a special deal. I don't see a huge step up from J with the things that matter to me. Yes, you get a lot more space but for me the space in J is perfectly adequate for a relaxed trip day or night. Sometimes F is available at not much more than J in which case I will always consider it but I won't pay a lot extra for F. The hobby for me is the flying. If I could do that much flying in Y or W without my body struggling then I probably would as I would get a lot more air time. I fly J as it means I can go on long trips without it becoming so much of a physical struggle. I generally fly in W when not doing a TP run. I am not all that impressed with the CCR tbh. Not a huge step up from the F lounge IMO. And in any case, there is only a CCR at a couple of locations so I wouldn't get to use it much anyway.

Always looking at how I can fly more for less. I am retired with little income so it is all from savings... I have to be a bit careful not to go OTT on it!

bisonrav

You always get a procession of well meaning advice when you say you're going for GGL status on your own dime, I certainly did. And I don't usually say anything other than it's a personal choice and it's not the most expensive of all possible hobbies.

But I have to say in your position I wouldn't be all that much in a hurry to chase it. If you're retired, there are probably better ways of using savings than GGL - you can jump on error fares from any airline or alliance when they come up and fly in J or F, you can even look at paying full fare. The sweet spot for BAEC general flying status remains Silver which gets you into the lounges and fast tracks with fairly minimal spend.

I justify GGL because I have a significant component of work travel, I have reasons to visit the Far East a lot for family reasons and it's great to be able to play a joker and gufs to get there in comfort during school holidays. I wouldn't say it's cost neutral because we're in higher cabins where we would have previously gone in Y, but there is a bit of method behind the madness.

snaxmuppet

orbitmic Good post. Thanks. Yes, I can see your argument there.

For me the benefits are not really real nor imaginary. I fly for the sake of flying when I do TP runs and I would do them even if status was not the aim. They are a great way to value for money when flying IMO. For example... I gained Gold this year so I have not really any need to do any flying this year to keep Gold for next year yet I am itching to do another run. My thoughts are that if I am doing the runs anyway then I might give myself the target of GGL and see if I could achieve it with the minimum of cost. The target of GGL is not about the benefits... it is about the target and achieving it through my own efforts. As most people hear may know... finding great valued TP runs is not easy and is time-consuming. It is personally rewarding.

If I were to be totally honest, the benefits of Silver are all I really need to keep me happy... advance seat booking, priority check-in/security, lounge access (business is fine for me), extra Avios. Gold is a nice extra... First lounge, better theoretical seating etc but I get almost no real benefit from being Gold in my opinion over those of Silver. GGL will give me very little extra. I don't covert status for its own sake. The idea of getting GGL for me is the challenge to do it in an affordable way. The challenge to use "the system" in such a way that does not breach any rules or regulations and yet maximises the benefits... hence TP runs that maximise the sectors/mileage to my advantage for TPs earned and Avios gained.

So, I suppose that people like me are not the purpose of a FFP. I spend very little over and above the thresholds to achieve status and so the incentive is wasted. However, being a member of BAEC does mean I will always look for Oneworld options before anything else so it has worked in a small way I suppose. As you say, there will always be people like me in any reward system like this.

snaxmuppet

bisonrav Yes, I agree... there are probably better ways to spend my savings even when considering flying. But I get a pleasure from sticking with the one program and getting to know it and the intricacies of BA and other partner airlines. I rarely fly EasyJet for example even though they fly from Bristol (my nearest significant airport) when there is an option to fly BA from LHR or LGW. So your comments are not wrong but there is more to this for me than JUST the flying.

I agree Silver is the sweet spot and my wife maintains Silver in her own right for that reason.

I expect that we will benefit more in the coming years... our son is doing his Masters in the USA, has an American fiance and in all likelihood will settle there. With that in mind we are considering buying a place there and renting it on AirBnB when we and our family aren't using it. So it is likely that our USA trips will increase beyond the current 2-3 a year as they are now. May be then Gold or GGL, with access to the First Wing in particular, may come into their own more.

Nick Art

I can’t comment on the exact BA matter on this but there is a similar system on Eurobonus, the SAS FFP. As gold you can give away a silver card and as Diamond you can give away a gold card. Given, the silver cards aren’t really useful outside of Scandinavia and they only give lounge access on SAS on saturdays, but for the last two years I always posted in the SAS forum after having asked some friends and so far always found a worthy recipient Obviously I always asked them to include why they would need the card and why they think I should give it to them

Next year will be interesting as I will probably manage to get diamond and hence will be able to give away a gold card that is much more valuable as it gives *A wide benefits. I haven’t decided if I’ll give it away here yet.

Often1

Schemes such as randomly giving away a card or guesting strangers into a lounge did not matter when they were very occasional oddities.

When they become a reported part of social media, they become a significant overhead item for carriers and whether to continue them becomes a part of the business analysis.

As noted, the purpose of an FFP is not to reward past loyalty, but to encourage it in the future. Marketing types believe, likely correctly, that past loyalty is an indicator of the future, hence lounges, status and the like. If it comes to pass that random people who have no past spend pattern and will not likely spend up to a required level going forward are taking up scarce lounge resources and the like, the benefit will go away very quickly.

Consider the cost of maintaining a lounge in a system where meals on short-haul are now BOB and you do not need access to proprietary financial information to read the tea leaves.

onobond

Those having nobody to gift a card to, or a use for their GUFs, there is evidently other options being considered in the FT community:

This
..and this
...and even this

snaxmuppet

Most of those are in clear breach of the T&Cs. Not something most people would risk IMO and yes, it is that kind of thing that may increase the chance of the benefits being withdrawn from everyone