dartagnan

Was scheduled to go STL-LAX-HND-SIN this weekend, and my LAX-HND segment was cancelled. This was a paid C ticket, not in an instant upgrade class, but not full fare. Called AA and had them rebook me to get to Singapore. Sent me STL-ORD-HKG-SIN. They couldn't confirm the STL-ORD segment in F, and put me in Y. The agent on the phone said I should contact customer relations after the fact for the fare difference on that segment or other compensation.

Flew STL-ORD. 2 people upgraded ahead of time, 2 people upgraded while on the plane.

I contacted customer relations yesterday, any while they said "I do regret to also hear that our agent was unable to confirm you in your ticket class of service from St Louis to Chicago." - they wouldn't issue any refund or compensation.

At the end of the day, this time was a short flight, so whatever. What am I missing here?

Antarius

I'd write back. But honestly, the fare difference is going to be 10 bucks or something meaningless like that on such a short segment of the trip.

MSPeconomist

Isn't the point that OP should have been placed in FC before any upgrades?It sounds like something was coded wrong when the trip was rebooked and the ticket reissued.

Antarius

IIRC, this is true, although it is not automated. I recall others in this situation being downgraded and unless inventory opened ahead and the traveler reticketed or the airport specifically cleared the OP ahead, they were in Y.

I may be misremembering, but feel there is a system issue here.

Madison Guy

From what I read, the GA should have coded the OP as DSR2 (listed as EXP, and with CK becomes 2 and the "T" suffix for though hasn't applied for a number of years.) But it find it unlikely that 4 PAX cleared and not the OP if listed correctly. But they rarely seem to do it unless prompted. ("I WAS confirmed in {class}. Flight cancel and there was no J space open at rebooking. Please code me as DSR" has been used to my success in the past.)

dartagnan

This is very helpful. I went through a couple agents on this one, and the agent that ultimately did book it, initially did the entire trip in coach, until I jumped on them (of course) to fix it. I'll take note of this for the future. (I am only Plat Pro right now - been on a lot of UA recently so my AA slowed considerably).

CR wrote back and said they'd refund the difference. Strange they didn't start with that.

Often1

Two different issues.

1. Yes, AA ought to have assigned OP an F seat ahead of all UG's. But, it is a manual process and would likely have taken OP being proactive at each stage. In fact, the second an F seat opened, he should have called in and with a bit of work, it would have been his.

2. OP is due a refund, not compensation, for the rerouted segment in Y. That is the case whether there were seats ultimately in F or not. However, the fare difference on this route is likely to be $0 or close to it. Nonetheless, OP may submit a request for the refund. This is not something which is handled over the phone.

Madison Guy

This is the issue I was trying to address. The fact that the upgraded seat was available (and in all probability) should have been his. I didn't address what reservations may or may not have been able to do since he stated two PAX cleared in advance (presumably off the list at the gate or OP could not have known) and two once on the place. DSR coding should have taken care of this situation once at the gate - without any additional manual intervention past the proper coding of DSR by the check-in agent or GA. (But yes, the DSR code, AFAIK, must be done by a human - hence manual.)

As another responder mentioned, compensation is in fact due. As that poster also mentioned, it will likely be calculated to be near zero. More aggravation than any outcome is it worth. IMHO. YMMV.

fotographer

have you noticed that when you are downgraded... the fare difference between Y and J to AA
is a really really small amount, but if you were to buy a ticket for that same trip in F
your cost would be $$$$$ more than Y.

warakorn

What is the usual fare difference between an O/D STL-ORD ticket? AA owes that difference, not some "manipulated" refaring schemes, which yield a downgrade refund of USD 0.

The USA needs EC261/2004!

Often1

This is incorrect.

Even if this were an EU carrier or a departure from the EU, which it is neither, this was a reroute which OP chose and not a downgrade. While it would make no sense to decline the Y segment on the micro-hop from STL-ORD, as a matter of precision, OP could have rejected it and insisted on being placed on a flight with F availability.

Moreover, the fare calculation here is likely based on a percentage of the routing and thus whether OP is refunded the fare difference to Y or 30% or 75% of the fare attributable to the segment is likely to be fractional at best and possibly even $0.

stevendorechester

What the U.S. needs is not EU 261 much a more passenger-friendly version as EU provides for an arbitrary refund, which in many cases can be less than the fare difference between two cabins, especially between J and lowest Y.

What is needed are laws in case of a downgrade that allow the passenger to chose, AT THEIR FULL DISCRETION, if during the rebooking process any segment is not available in a premium cabin either:

A full refund and if needed a return to passenger' s original destination, or

If the passenger chooses, travel in a lower cabin with a refund of the fare difference, pro-rated to distance, between the fare paid and the lowest fare available in the lower cabin AT TIME OF PURCHASE or,

Again, if the passenger chooses, re-routing in the ticketed and paid for cabin ( or higher ) either on the airline' s own flights or on another airline for no extra charge, depending on what works best for the passenger at the passenger' s sole discretion. It doesn' t take much effort for an airline agent to issue a FIM manifest for travel on another airline.

stevendorechester

[QUOTE=Often1;31626191]This is incorrect.

Even if this happened to be covered by EC 261/2004 which it is of course not, the value of the base segment fare for STL-ORD on a STL-HND ticket is likely to be close to nothing and either 30% or 75% of close to nothing is even closer to nothing. It would not be surprising if STL-HND is less than ORD-HND, in which case the STL-ORD segment would have $0 value and that number will not change no matter how one calculates what is due.[/QUOTE

I doubt it would be nothing if this were an EU issue but it wouldn' t be much. The way the refund is calculated under EU laws ( one of my work colleagues went through it) is the airline would pro-rate the distance and base the refund on either 30% or 75% of the total fare, which would be very little ( but never nothing). In other words if a FRA-CDG-JFK ticket costs $3000 and you are downgrade FRA-CDG which is roughly 10% of the distance the airline would calculate 75% of $ 3000 ( $ 2250) and refund 10% of that ( so approx $225), or even less if they tried to calculate the refund at 30% and they don't take into account certain taxes. Very small, but never zero.

jordyn

This isn't correct. The EU regulation is based on 75% of the actual fare paid (pro-rated based on distance in this case), not some airline-determined refund.

Dave Noble

Given that STL-ORD is 258 miles out of 9639 miles total journey , which is 2.7% of the distance.

Uner EC261, The refund however does depend on the length of the flight

The refund amounts are
(a) 30 % of the price of the ticket for all flights of 1 500 kilometres or less
(b) 50 % of the price of the ticket for all intra-Community flights of more than 1 500 kilometres,
(c) 75 % of the price of the ticket for all flights not falling under (a) or (b)

This flight would be under (a) so would only get 30% refund , whcih would be a total refund of 0.8% of the fare. On a $20,000 r/t fare that would be $8 . This would hardly be worth claiming for