runningformqm

https://viewfromthewing.com/2019/09/...m=BoardingArea

"Delta CEO Ed Bastian told Bloomberg that the SkyTeam, of which Delta is a part, hasn’t “brought a lot of great value to customers..[or] to member airlines” and so they’re trying to create their “own international network of carriers” with Delta “as the centerpiece.”"

It also doesn't help that you can't earn MQMs on some of the lower tier partners.

findark

That's interesting... the headline would make it sound like ST specifically has failed, but in the full context he has a dim view of alliances in general. I wonder if that's more focused on the CEO view of non-JV alliance partners who don't "play nice" and are still actively competing despite the supposed alliance.

kop84

My interpretation of it is that standard code-share agreements and some reciprocal FF benefits is of very limited value to the airline and flyers when you compare it to JV's and especially JV's which DL has an equity stake and can drive at least some standardization.

And I would say this cuts across more than just Skyteam, but to OW and *A as well...when you look at the US as their FF base, what percentage of travelers are utilizing Tarom & XiamenAir in ST, or Egypt Air & LOT for *A, and S7 & SriLankan in OW? It probably costs more resources to keep up those partnerships than additional revenue it generates toward DL, UA, AA specifically. (It might be a big boost for those small carriers who decent percentage of their fliers take alliance partners)

I'm sure there are a few people who were excited when Garuda joined Skyteam (never flown them but by most accounts a very nice airline) But practically speaking it's got to be just a minuscule percentage of Delta travelers who have even heard of them, much less flown them or will EVER fly them. And I'm sure a lot of resources per put into getting them to join Skyteam, and keeping them in Skyteam, etc etc, for a very limited benefit to many of the carriers.

ab2013

It seems like DL is cherry picking partner airlines in SkyTeam to be close with - AF, AM, KE, and KL - and being distant (to varying degrees, like being closer to MU than CI) with the rest.

The Situation

More proof of the arrogance of DL management. Skyteam serves its purpose and delivers sufficient value for 99.9% of customers. Sure I have faced a few gaps in the network here and there, but every network has gaps and the gaps are only going to get bigger if the "alliance" is reduced to Delta and they burn all their bridges along the way. Bastian and DL management are narcissists and believe everyone will bow down to them and every decision seems to be made based on how much it feeds the illusion they control everything. I miss the days of Richard Anderson...say what you will about him, but at least I saw steady improvements in the way the organization treated employees and customers under his leadership.

kop84

This probably is way to broad/nerdy, etc But here' goes

Alliances are the "Articles of Confederation" A loose collection of airlines who won't actively try to hurt each other most of the time.
JV's are the "US Constitution" A strong group of carriers who have their own unique rules and flair, but they work as one unit for the most part.

kop84

I appreciated RA's leadership, but that man was stubborn and basically burned the KE bridge to the ground when they wouldn't play ball so much that it couldn't be repaired while he was the CEO

ijgordon

Well, for geographic reasons, Garuda doesn't even fly to the U.S., so of course there isn't a lot of overlap with Delta and its flyers. But that's a myopic view because SkyTeam is a lot more than just Delta. That particular relationship probably makes a lot more sense with KLM, for example.

davistev

Silly point of view. Many many Skyteam members NEVER fly Delta.

cmd320

I don't necessarily disagree with him, but this is also to be expected a bit when you have airlines like Saudia, TAROM, MEA, etc. as your partners. Outside of DL, Garuda, and AF/KL/KE on a good day, SkyTeam doesn't exactly scream quality.

speed.skater

I wonder why almost everybody who is of importance--like, in management and such--questions alliances. As previous posters suggested, this is not a ST-specific phenomenon. Almost all major carriers part of an alliance seem to be skeptical. QR threatens leaving OW (partly due to quarrels with AA, but also since they question the value the alliance provides to them). Recently, LH forms new codeshare partnerships and builds connections primarily outside *A (e.g., with CX and LA which are both in OW). I could go on. Everybody seems to be pessimistic when it comes to alliances.

Yet, in my mind, it's doubtful airlines can achieve a dominant position without alliances. Sure, the US market has consolidated a lot and US carriers are in much better shape than, say, 10 years ago. But travellers have become so much more sophisticated. And no single carrier is in a position to serve the entire mainstream on its own. They're not in a position like Microsoft or Volkswagen which have a decent offering for every market segment except niches. And looking at growth markets, it's unconceivable any legacy carrier (US or European) can do without cooperation from local airlines such as MU, CZ, CA, MF, etc.

WillBarrett_68

exactly, it's a clickbait headline

Gig103

How obnoxious and self-centered. The idea of major alliances are definitely valuable to the passenger (if not to the airline and their shareholders?). Those on Oneworld and StarAlliance have better networks than Skyteam in my opinion, so that just means any gaps and deficiencies he's being "self critical" about have more to do with the gang leader (Delta) picking and choosing airlines like it's a pickup game of softball.

Even before clicking the article I figured, knowing Delta has both JV with and ownership stakes in some of the other airlines, that this was hinting at breaking up Skyteam to only be ones Delta has a financial interest in. If so, that would be short sighted and too NA/Europe focused.

azepine00

Skyteam is failing because dl wants to benefit from it without offering much. The worst benefits, the worst award availability the worst earnings with so called "second tier" partners, obscene redemption taxes/fees, fights with KE and SU etc etc.. there is no such widespread nonsense in *A or OW even though they have some issues with individual carriers.
Ppl can use ua systemwides on lufthamsa, use use awesome cx f lounges while being aa top tier, fairly easily redeem miles across alliance - quite a contrast with what delta and skyteam offer...

ND76

The counter agent at AZ's IAD station didn't even know what SkyTeam was, and refused to honor the benefits we were entitled to (fortunately, the AF lounge concierge recognized our status and let us into her lounge).