Cris-cros the Med & the Globe on Emirates, Qantas & Star Alliance in mix of F/C/Y+/Y
Apr 16, 2009, 4:48 am
#76
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Frankfurt transit, yes again
My third transit of Frankfurt this trip maximises the allowance in *A RTW fares and was necessary due to limited *A options for visiting Morocco and Malta. Those who've read some of my earlier trip reports may have guessed I like destinations that can be reached from multiple *A hubs. With the limit on 16 segments this allows maximum flexibility to zig-zag around a region and visit as many new and different places as possible without wasting flight segments going from one hub to another.
This transit was Schengen to non-Schengen, and was a few hours long, and thus I had a choice of options. I opted to visit the Schengen lounge at A26 first. This was, as I expected, fairly empty at this hour of day. Meaning no wait for the computer terminal to catch up on some messages and also no wait for a shower over in the business class side. About an hour before departure of my next flight I headed for the B part of the terminal. Along the way I stopped at the transfer desk to see if I could check in for onward flights - no go. To minimise security hassles I took the tunnel and cleared immigration in B, where there was no queue. As I still had a few minutes before I needed to be at the gate I visited the B non-Schengen lounge also.
My third transit of Frankfurt this trip maximises the allowance in *A RTW fares and was necessary due to limited *A options for visiting Morocco and Malta. Those who've read some of my earlier trip reports may have guessed I like destinations that can be reached from multiple *A hubs. With the limit on 16 segments this allows maximum flexibility to zig-zag around a region and visit as many new and different places as possible without wasting flight segments going from one hub to another.
This transit was Schengen to non-Schengen, and was a few hours long, and thus I had a choice of options. I opted to visit the Schengen lounge at A26 first. This was, as I expected, fairly empty at this hour of day. Meaning no wait for the computer terminal to catch up on some messages and also no wait for a shower over in the business class side. About an hour before departure of my next flight I headed for the B part of the terminal. Along the way I stopped at the transfer desk to see if I could check in for onward flights - no go. To minimise security hassles I took the tunnel and cleared immigration in B, where there was no queue. As I still had a few minutes before I needed to be at the gate I visited the B non-Schengen lounge also.
Apr 16, 2009, 4:49 am
#77
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FRANKFURT to BEIRUT (FRA-BEY) on Lufthansa A321-200 in business class
At the appropriate time I headed for the gate. We had a remote stand. The security check at the gate was a little over-vigourous. By the time I'd endured that boarding had begun. I had a small delay at the boarding pass check while the agent flipped through my fairly full passport looking for Israeli stamps. After a couple of minutes he gave up and just asked me if I had been. I gave the necessary white lie and was through. Our remote stand was very remote, being past the cargo area. Indeed as we drove an ANA 777 taxiied alongside us and turned onto the main runway closer to the terminal than our aircraft on stand V 261).
Everyone boarding by the front stairs despite some rear stairs being available. I've noticed this before on various flights of European airlines, and wonder why this is. The same phenomenom doesn't seem to occur with the likes of Pacific Blue, but then they are more proactive in promoting boarding by the relevant stairs based on seat row number.
The load is very light tonight - lots of room to spread out. Before take-off we are offered newspapers, magazines and a towelette. Apparently, unlike the North African Lufthansa flights I have taken, this flight is just long enough to warrant an amenity kit - which appears to be the same as the kit used in business class on longhaul flights.
After we were all onboard there was a delay as business class hadn't been catered for pillows or blankets. Once that was sorted we had a very short taxi and took off into the night.
Dinner was served and I managed a little sleep. I awoke on descent. A not very moist hot towel was handed out. We had nice views on approach of the lights of Beirut and Lebanon tumbling down hillsides to waters edge.
At the appropriate time I headed for the gate. We had a remote stand. The security check at the gate was a little over-vigourous. By the time I'd endured that boarding had begun. I had a small delay at the boarding pass check while the agent flipped through my fairly full passport looking for Israeli stamps. After a couple of minutes he gave up and just asked me if I had been. I gave the necessary white lie and was through. Our remote stand was very remote, being past the cargo area. Indeed as we drove an ANA 777 taxiied alongside us and turned onto the main runway closer to the terminal than our aircraft on stand V 261).
Everyone boarding by the front stairs despite some rear stairs being available. I've noticed this before on various flights of European airlines, and wonder why this is. The same phenomenom doesn't seem to occur with the likes of Pacific Blue, but then they are more proactive in promoting boarding by the relevant stairs based on seat row number.
The load is very light tonight - lots of room to spread out. Before take-off we are offered newspapers, magazines and a towelette. Apparently, unlike the North African Lufthansa flights I have taken, this flight is just long enough to warrant an amenity kit - which appears to be the same as the kit used in business class on longhaul flights.
After we were all onboard there was a delay as business class hadn't been catered for pillows or blankets. Once that was sorted we had a very short taxi and took off into the night.
Dinner was served and I managed a little sleep. I awoke on descent. A not very moist hot towel was handed out. We had nice views on approach of the lights of Beirut and Lebanon tumbling down hillsides to waters edge.
Apr 16, 2009, 4:49 am
#78
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Lufthansa
Business Class menu
Frankfurt to Beirut
April 2009
Menu
Appetiser
Medallion of Salmon Trout and smoked Salmon on Herb Salmon Mousse with Lime Creme Fraiche
Main Courses
Roasted Beef served with Vegetables from Teltower Rubchen, delicate small Turnips from Teltow, and Spatzle
King Prawns with Herb Butter, roasted Vegetables and Venus Rice
Bread Dumpling with Ragout of wild Mushroom and Broccoli
Cheese and Dessert
Camembert, Emmental and Rucola Cream Cheese
Lemon Lime Tart with Strawberry Coulis
Beverages
Sparkling Wine
Red and White Wine
Beer
Warsteiner Pils
Soft Drinks
Mineral Water
Spirits
Coffee
Tea
Business Class menu
Frankfurt to Beirut
April 2009
Menu
Appetiser
Medallion of Salmon Trout and smoked Salmon on Herb Salmon Mousse with Lime Creme Fraiche
Main Courses
Roasted Beef served with Vegetables from Teltower Rubchen, delicate small Turnips from Teltow, and Spatzle
King Prawns with Herb Butter, roasted Vegetables and Venus Rice
Bread Dumpling with Ragout of wild Mushroom and Broccoli
Cheese and Dessert
Camembert, Emmental and Rucola Cream Cheese
Lemon Lime Tart with Strawberry Coulis
Beverages
Sparkling Wine
Red and White Wine
Beer
Warsteiner Pils
Soft Drinks
Mineral Water
Spirits
Coffee
Tea
C6D B 03/09
Apr 16, 2009, 4:52 am
#79
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Beirut in transit
I had a little over an hour to connect to my onward flight. I had a plan B of turning around and returning on Lufthansa if things didn't work out (eg if the flight from Frankfurt was significantly late), but as it turns out that may not have worked as their return flight was full. I wasn't sure of the airport setup. Would I need to go through immigration or not? I suspected there would be a transit facility because last year I was booked to fly bmi Khartoum to London via Beirut. (I didn't end up flying it - you can read more on why here in my trip report.)
Indeed there was a transfer desk manned by a MEA agent. He asked me to take a seat while he went to check in to get an agent of my next airline. Five minutes later I went through the WTMD (once again no need to remove liquids baggy) and up to departures area. Another short wait airside while she checked me in - it seems there are no check in facilities airside here (indeed this seems to be the norm away from major hubs). Then I was handed 2 boarding passes and an invitation card for the contract lounge. The boarding passes do not show my *G status so I expect I will have to claim missing miles in due course.
The VIP lounge is upstairs and is tiny, smokey and crowded. The couches are all full with sleeping or dozing passengers. There being few amenities (mainly drinks with little else) I opt to leave straight away. Surely the terminal is more comfortable than this?
I had a little over an hour to connect to my onward flight. I had a plan B of turning around and returning on Lufthansa if things didn't work out (eg if the flight from Frankfurt was significantly late), but as it turns out that may not have worked as their return flight was full. I wasn't sure of the airport setup. Would I need to go through immigration or not? I suspected there would be a transit facility because last year I was booked to fly bmi Khartoum to London via Beirut. (I didn't end up flying it - you can read more on why here in my trip report.)
Indeed there was a transfer desk manned by a MEA agent. He asked me to take a seat while he went to check in to get an agent of my next airline. Five minutes later I went through the WTMD (once again no need to remove liquids baggy) and up to departures area. Another short wait airside while she checked me in - it seems there are no check in facilities airside here (indeed this seems to be the norm away from major hubs). Then I was handed 2 boarding passes and an invitation card for the contract lounge. The boarding passes do not show my *G status so I expect I will have to claim missing miles in due course.
The VIP lounge is upstairs and is tiny, smokey and crowded. The couches are all full with sleeping or dozing passengers. There being few amenities (mainly drinks with little else) I opt to leave straight away. Surely the terminal is more comfortable than this?
Apr 16, 2009, 4:54 am
#80
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BEIRUT to ISTANBUL (BEY-IST) on Turkish Airlines 737-800 A321 in business class
Security on the way to the gates was quick. The gate area was sparse - a big area with rows of plastic seats and nothing else. It makes me realise just how accustomed I have become to seeing shops, artworks, water fountains, etc in gate areas.
After a few minutes boarding is called. I was stopped at the airbridge when the security guy couldn't find an exit stamp in my passport and the airline agent didn't confirm I was a transit passenger. Apparently my boarding pass for the previous flight did not constitute proof and the check-in agent was supposed to make a note that I was an international transit passenger. Come to think of it, much like Singapore, every transit passenger at Beirut is in international transit.
So I waited while most of the rest of the passengers boarded. The agent wanted to get the station manager to sort me out, while I waited patiently hoping to sort this out quickly. It all seemed so bizarre. Here I was at an airport where I needed a visa to enter the country (but not to transit) and they wanted to stop me from leaving?
Eventually I managed to ask the right question of the agent and I was told "okay you can board" (before the station manager arrived). Fortunately I managed to find space to put my carryon. I would have been peeved if the boarding delay had caused me to gate check a bag (especially as this would severely complicate my next transit).
The flight was fairly full but I had a row to myself. Pre-departure we were offered newspapers (nothing in English), hot towel (a bit too soggy for my taste) and a choice of water, juice or flat bubbly (flabbly?).
As we taxi out to the runway and climb out over coastal hills, I realised just how squeezed in the airport is between residential areas and the hills and sea.
This is my first flight on Turkish Airlines, and there aren't too many reports so I'll try to be as descriptive as possible (bearing in mind this was a short 1 hour flight in the middle of the night when I was rather tired). Business class is in normal economy seats. As the load was light I do not know if middle seat is normally blocked. The legroom was, however, better than a normal economy seat. As with many European airlines, business class has a moveable partition, thus I guess the front portion of the aircraft all has reasonable legroom.
A breakfast was served. We had pillows and blankets. I tried to catch some sleep, but with such a short flight this was no more than micronaps.
On final descent into Istanbul we had great view of lights and the Bosphorus. We had a very long taxi past the entire terminal to pull up at a domestic gate. Thus we descended the airbridge stairs and board a bus to international arrivals. During the taxi a long list of connecting gates were read out - there were about 30 so it seems most passengers tonight where connecting rather than flying just to Istanbul. After mild to warm temperatures so far in the trip it was a surprise to encounter a distinct chilliness here.
Security on the way to the gates was quick. The gate area was sparse - a big area with rows of plastic seats and nothing else. It makes me realise just how accustomed I have become to seeing shops, artworks, water fountains, etc in gate areas.
After a few minutes boarding is called. I was stopped at the airbridge when the security guy couldn't find an exit stamp in my passport and the airline agent didn't confirm I was a transit passenger. Apparently my boarding pass for the previous flight did not constitute proof and the check-in agent was supposed to make a note that I was an international transit passenger. Come to think of it, much like Singapore, every transit passenger at Beirut is in international transit.
So I waited while most of the rest of the passengers boarded. The agent wanted to get the station manager to sort me out, while I waited patiently hoping to sort this out quickly. It all seemed so bizarre. Here I was at an airport where I needed a visa to enter the country (but not to transit) and they wanted to stop me from leaving?
Eventually I managed to ask the right question of the agent and I was told "okay you can board" (before the station manager arrived). Fortunately I managed to find space to put my carryon. I would have been peeved if the boarding delay had caused me to gate check a bag (especially as this would severely complicate my next transit).
The flight was fairly full but I had a row to myself. Pre-departure we were offered newspapers (nothing in English), hot towel (a bit too soggy for my taste) and a choice of water, juice or flat bubbly (flabbly?).
As we taxi out to the runway and climb out over coastal hills, I realised just how squeezed in the airport is between residential areas and the hills and sea.
This is my first flight on Turkish Airlines, and there aren't too many reports so I'll try to be as descriptive as possible (bearing in mind this was a short 1 hour flight in the middle of the night when I was rather tired). Business class is in normal economy seats. As the load was light I do not know if middle seat is normally blocked. The legroom was, however, better than a normal economy seat. As with many European airlines, business class has a moveable partition, thus I guess the front portion of the aircraft all has reasonable legroom.
A breakfast was served. We had pillows and blankets. I tried to catch some sleep, but with such a short flight this was no more than micronaps.
On final descent into Istanbul we had great view of lights and the Bosphorus. We had a very long taxi past the entire terminal to pull up at a domestic gate. Thus we descended the airbridge stairs and board a bus to international arrivals. During the taxi a long list of connecting gates were read out - there were about 30 so it seems most passengers tonight where connecting rather than flying just to Istanbul. After mild to warm temperatures so far in the trip it was a surprise to encounter a distinct chilliness here.
Apr 16, 2009, 11:58 am
#81
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Turkish
Business Class menu
Beirut to Istanbul
April 2009
Menu
Fresh fruit salad
Yoghurt with honey
Beef ham and herbed chicken
White cheese, kasar cream cheese
marinated black and green olives
tomato and cucumber
ovenfresh croissant and bread selection
butter/jam
freshly brewed coffee or tea
Beverages
Champagne
Spirits
Blended Whisky, Bourbon Whisky, Gin, Vodka, Raki
selected Turkish and international wines
beers
Carlsberg / Efes Pilsen
juices
orange, tomato, sourcherry
soft drinks
Cola, Cola Light, Sprite, Ice Tea lemon, mineral water
hot drinks
freshly brewed coffee, tea
Business Class menu
Beirut to Istanbul
April 2009
Menu
Fresh fruit salad
Yoghurt with honey
Beef ham and herbed chicken
White cheese, kasar cream cheese
marinated black and green olives
tomato and cucumber
ovenfresh croissant and bread selection
butter/jam
freshly brewed coffee or tea
Beverages
Champagne
Spirits
Blended Whisky, Bourbon Whisky, Gin, Vodka, Raki
selected Turkish and international wines
beers
Carlsberg / Efes Pilsen
juices
orange, tomato, sourcherry
soft drinks
Cola, Cola Light, Sprite, Ice Tea lemon, mineral water
hot drinks
freshly brewed coffee, tea
MK_INT_IST_BC_CB1
Last edited by Kiwi Flyer; Apr 16, 2009 at 11:18 pm
Apr 16, 2009, 12:28 pm
#82
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Istanbul in transit
When we reached the terminal there was a scrum to enter. Then the long walk that I recalled from a previous visit to reach immigration and transfers (the terminal is quite linear). Another scrum for the boarding pass check to be admitted to departures level. A long walk back the length of international terminal to the Turkish lounge.
The Turkish lounge is very nice, stunning even for a business class lounge. Nicely furnished. Lots of separate areas giving a real sense of space (despite it being very busy at this hour there is no sense of being crowded). Several computers. Nice spread of food and drink. Magazines, newspapers. Shower (only 2 so could be a queue at busy times, get shower kit from reception).
When we reached the terminal there was a scrum to enter. Then the long walk that I recalled from a previous visit to reach immigration and transfers (the terminal is quite linear). Another scrum for the boarding pass check to be admitted to departures level. A long walk back the length of international terminal to the Turkish lounge.
The Turkish lounge is very nice, stunning even for a business class lounge. Nicely furnished. Lots of separate areas giving a real sense of space (despite it being very busy at this hour there is no sense of being crowded). Several computers. Nice spread of food and drink. Magazines, newspapers. Shower (only 2 so could be a queue at busy times, get shower kit from reception).
Apr 16, 2009, 12:29 pm
#83
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Turkish
Business Class menu
Istanbul to Tirana
April 2009
Menu
Fresh fruit salad
Yoghurt with fruit & muesli
Beef ham and herbed chicken
Assorted cheese
Please choose from our selection
Turkish cheese savoury
Turkish spinach savoury
grilled tomato
or
Turkey ham & cheese toast
poached egg with mornay sauce
sauteed spinach and diced potatoes
ovenfresh croissant and bread selection
butter/jam
freshly brewed coffee or tea
Beverages
Champagne
Spirits
Blended Whisky, Bourbon Whisky, Gin, Vodka, Raki
selected Turkish and international wines
beers
Carlsberg / Efes Pilsen
juices
orange, tomato, sourcherry
soft drinks
Cola, Cola Light, Sprite, Ice Tea lemon, mineral water
hot drinks
freshly brewed coffee, tea
Business Class menu
Istanbul to Tirana
April 2009
Menu
Fresh fruit salad
Yoghurt with fruit & muesli
Beef ham and herbed chicken
Assorted cheese
Please choose from our selection
Turkish cheese savoury
Turkish spinach savoury
grilled tomato
or
Turkey ham & cheese toast
poached egg with mornay sauce
sauteed spinach and diced potatoes
ovenfresh croissant and bread selection
butter/jam
freshly brewed coffee or tea
Beverages
Champagne
Spirits
Blended Whisky, Bourbon Whisky, Gin, Vodka, Raki
selected Turkish and international wines
beers
Carlsberg / Efes Pilsen
juices
orange, tomato, sourcherry
soft drinks
Cola, Cola Light, Sprite, Ice Tea lemon, mineral water
hot drinks
freshly brewed coffee, tea
MK_INT_IST_BC_HB5
Last edited by Kiwi Flyer; Apr 16, 2009 at 11:17 pm
Apr 16, 2009, 2:04 pm
#84
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ISTANBUL to TIRANA (IST-TIA) on Turkish Airlines 737-800 in business class
Our gate was a bus gate at the far end of the terminal. I was getting to stretch my legs quite well today. The bus gates have a shared security and not much room after security, thus your boarding pass is checked to see if your flight is imminent enough to go through. There are 3 or 4 security stations and it is all connected beyond security so pick the one with the shortest queue. At this hour of day there were flights departing every couple of minutes and thus big crowds of passengers everywhere. However security was fast (I won't say efficient because I forgot to remove my wallet which then set off the WTMD but the screener didn't notice in all the noise).
There was a moderate delay in boarding. I needn't have left the lounge so early, but how were we to know when the monitors all showed an on time departure? As our bus headed down the length of the terminal (yes my path in Istanbul seems to consist of back and forth and back and forth and ...) I noticed the Singapore Airlines 777. It was SQ that I flew on a previous visit to Istanbul, on a 3 week trip around western and central Turkey. I also noticed that Turkish Airlines has many more aircraft than I expected and also has quite an assortment of jet aircraft types (perhaps 8 or 9 different a/c types parked up at gates we passed).
The load was light.
The business class section in 737-800 differed from the A321, although still was made up of economy class seats. In the 737-800 the middle seat was shrunk to give more width in the aisle and window seats, still with reasonable legroom for shorthaul, and a tray placed over the middle seat. However unlike Lufthansa we are not allowed to play items under the tray, and it is attached to the seat rather than forming part of the seatback folded down.
There was limited views en route. Istanbul and European Turkey quickly disappearing below cloud cover soon after take off, a few glimpses of coastline and mountains from time to time, and then lush farmland in the valley in which Tirana sits just before landing.
There are no airbridges at Tirana. We were bussed about 50 metres to the terminal. Immigration and customs were both quick - our flight was the only recent arrival. On my way out of the terminal, while I was looking for the bus into the city I was hassled by a taxi tout who claimed there was no bus. This was one bit I had researched (about the only non-flight research I did for the whole trip) so I brushed him off. Sure enough, around the corner sat the Rinas Express bus. Bus fare into city is 250 LEK (about $2) whereas taxi fare is approx 2000 LEK (if you get an honest cabbie). The bus was about to leave and drops off near Scanderberg Square in the centre of Tirana (and half a block from where I was staying), thus no great loss of time to take the bus. The bus departs hourly from 8am to 7pm. Both bus ride and taxi take about 25 minutes.
Our gate was a bus gate at the far end of the terminal. I was getting to stretch my legs quite well today. The bus gates have a shared security and not much room after security, thus your boarding pass is checked to see if your flight is imminent enough to go through. There are 3 or 4 security stations and it is all connected beyond security so pick the one with the shortest queue. At this hour of day there were flights departing every couple of minutes and thus big crowds of passengers everywhere. However security was fast (I won't say efficient because I forgot to remove my wallet which then set off the WTMD but the screener didn't notice in all the noise).
There was a moderate delay in boarding. I needn't have left the lounge so early, but how were we to know when the monitors all showed an on time departure? As our bus headed down the length of the terminal (yes my path in Istanbul seems to consist of back and forth and back and forth and ...) I noticed the Singapore Airlines 777. It was SQ that I flew on a previous visit to Istanbul, on a 3 week trip around western and central Turkey. I also noticed that Turkish Airlines has many more aircraft than I expected and also has quite an assortment of jet aircraft types (perhaps 8 or 9 different a/c types parked up at gates we passed).
The load was light.
The business class section in 737-800 differed from the A321, although still was made up of economy class seats. In the 737-800 the middle seat was shrunk to give more width in the aisle and window seats, still with reasonable legroom for shorthaul, and a tray placed over the middle seat. However unlike Lufthansa we are not allowed to play items under the tray, and it is attached to the seat rather than forming part of the seatback folded down.
There was limited views en route. Istanbul and European Turkey quickly disappearing below cloud cover soon after take off, a few glimpses of coastline and mountains from time to time, and then lush farmland in the valley in which Tirana sits just before landing.
There are no airbridges at Tirana. We were bussed about 50 metres to the terminal. Immigration and customs were both quick - our flight was the only recent arrival. On my way out of the terminal, while I was looking for the bus into the city I was hassled by a taxi tout who claimed there was no bus. This was one bit I had researched (about the only non-flight research I did for the whole trip) so I brushed him off. Sure enough, around the corner sat the Rinas Express bus. Bus fare into city is 250 LEK (about $2) whereas taxi fare is approx 2000 LEK (if you get an honest cabbie). The bus was about to leave and drops off near Scanderberg Square in the centre of Tirana (and half a block from where I was staying), thus no great loss of time to take the bus. The bus departs hourly from 8am to 7pm. Both bus ride and taxi take about 25 minutes.
Apr 16, 2009, 2:24 pm
#85
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Albania - part 1
I stayed at Hotel Nobel. This is a little hotel less than a block from Scanderberg Square (ie centre of the city). The rate was about a tenth of what the only major chain hotel, the Sheraton, was charging. I expect I could have found somewhere cheaper and nicer if I spent time looking.
It wasn't fancy. No wifi or tissues in the bathroom. Indeed not even a phone. The view was, well different. I can honestly say I've never stayed somewhere with a fine view of a power sub-station just across the pot-holed dirt road on which the hotel sits. The wall-bracket-mounted tv had several channels, none in any language I can speak or understand, and looked as if it would come down if I slammed the door. The door had a funky lock that everyone seemed to have problems with. The plumbing & bathroom reminded me of some old 1960s baches (kiwi for very basic beach houses) - a guy peeing has to stand in the shower!
But it was clean. Very conveniently located (most attractions are within a block or two). The staff were friendly and helpful. The rate included breakfast and parking. The bed was comfortable.
I'll post some more of my stay in Tirana shortly, but for now here are some thoughts on how Albania challenged my thinking.
I stayed at Hotel Nobel. This is a little hotel less than a block from Scanderberg Square (ie centre of the city). The rate was about a tenth of what the only major chain hotel, the Sheraton, was charging. I expect I could have found somewhere cheaper and nicer if I spent time looking.
It wasn't fancy. No wifi or tissues in the bathroom. Indeed not even a phone. The view was, well different. I can honestly say I've never stayed somewhere with a fine view of a power sub-station just across the pot-holed dirt road on which the hotel sits. The wall-bracket-mounted tv had several channels, none in any language I can speak or understand, and looked as if it would come down if I slammed the door. The door had a funky lock that everyone seemed to have problems with. The plumbing & bathroom reminded me of some old 1960s baches (kiwi for very basic beach houses) - a guy peeing has to stand in the shower!
But it was clean. Very conveniently located (most attractions are within a block or two). The staff were friendly and helpful. The rate included breakfast and parking. The bed was comfortable.
I'll post some more of my stay in Tirana shortly, but for now here are some thoughts on how Albania challenged my thinking.
Apr 16, 2009, 5:25 pm
#87
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,950
Also, for the first menu, I assume you mean "Beef, ham and herbed chicken", i.e. you pretty much got an antipasto-ish platter or similar. I have to admit I've never tasted "beef ham" or beef-flavoured ham in my life
