No Feedback When Criticizeing SAS

Old May 15, 03, 1:22 pm
  #1  
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No Feedback When Criticizeing SAS

SOMETHING STRANGE
Why do people at this SAS forum never give positiv feedback when I criticize bad things about SAS. If I say it is horrible
when I canīt buy onewaytickets or change returnbooking when paying low fare tickets, someone always say I am wrong. Are you all SAS-workers for this aircompany, or donīt you want to change things to be better. Donīt you like good service. Are you afraid to loose money. What do you really mean?
I thing good service will earn more money
for SAS. They must change a lot of things to be better.

Flying-Jet
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Old May 15, 03, 2:11 pm
  #2  
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As I know this question might be directed partially to me, I will try to answer what my reasons for my "defence" of the pricing strategies of SK.

Of course one always wants cheap tickets with all the flexibility in the world... Why not offer C class to everybody, lounge access to EBB's etc? Well, SAS will run out of money very fast and we'll have to fly Lufthansa or some other airline next time.
I want to be able to fly with SAS next year. And seeing how the airline business is bleeding at the moment, I think it's fair to say that everything needs to be done to make sure that the company is working in a profit maximizing mode. This of course includes service etc, which is why I question certain cutbacks in SK service recently, but I still think SAS is very service oriented and will continue to focus on this area.
As I studied Management and Economics at University questions regarding industrial economics, pricing strategies etc interest me a great deal. And I think that SAS is moving towards a better strategy product wise... We will have to look at what travellers bring in the most money in the SK market - it is the business travellers. It may be different in other markets, but in Scandinavia I would say that this is the absolutely most important market segment. There is also the tourist segment, which is very important as well, and then there is the youth and student segment.
First of all - I think it's great that SK has identified all THREE of these as airlines in general focus only on the first two.

A critical fact about the market is that you cannot force certain passengers to place themselves in specific market segments. I can't remember the relevant term for this now, but customers need to place themselves into a market segment, and it's important for SAS that they come into the correct one to maximize profits. Business travellers will always have the deepest pockets, and it's therefore very important that there is a product that they will NEED and hence buy at a high price (this includes flexible tickets, one way tickets, short advance purchase etc).
If the product which is available to other passengers is too similar to the business product, then the high paying business travellers will buy this product instead, and SAS will loose a lot of potential money from this passenger. You will therefore have to tailor products which are desireable for tourist travellers but not suitable for a business traveller, which is what SAS is doing with long advance purchase requirements, Saturday/Sunday rules, non flexible tickets and so on. This won't generally matter to a tourist, and hence this product suits them, and it can be offered at a low price that matches their reservation price. This is also why airlines have increasing ticket prices as this will grab more consumer surplus... This is exactly what all airlines are doing including all the no-frills airlines.

So why am I talking about profit maximization? Well, I'm not an employee of SAS, not even a shareholder (anymore... but possibly soon again) but SAS has to be profitable to be able to survive... All airlines have to be! And whilst I don't support all strategies SAS are choosing and offering including the degrading quality of EuroBonus unfortunately, I totally understand the pricing strategies they use and offer...

Are my motives clearer now?
 
Old May 15, 03, 2:35 pm
  #3  
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Thankīs heaven there is a aircompany called THAI airways. They understand what type of airtickets domestic passangers want and need. I donīt think SAS will survive. SAS will never get over it. Their CEO and their policy will be their death.

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Old May 15, 03, 3:32 pm
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For heaven sake, we have been thru this before. Yes, there are major issues with the whole "major" airline industry, which includes SK, BA, LH, the US "big six", etc. But it's not unique to SK!

However, your suggestion that SAS overnight becomes a Southwest is idiotic. And even Southwest does not offer full flexibility on rock bottom fares. Instead, they offer reasonable refundable fares, which you probably would complain about as well. How does $275 one way Wash DC to Houston sound to you? Not bad compared to $1100 (what CO charges) but your average leisure travler is not going to like that fare when the lowest fare is $213 round-trip.

Also, what would motivate SK to change the cost structure on domestic routes when there is no competition?

Finally, SK is making an effort, more so than many other airlines, to offer a better fare structure. Read the editorial in the May Scanorama.
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Old May 15, 03, 3:32 pm
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For low low fares, the best I've heard is Ryanair. I think they will survive. Just what we need. Their fare structure is based on single trips. Perhaps, just like THAI, they will offer flexible scheduling and last minute changes. It never hurts to ask. Good luck.

By the way, THAI seem like a great airline. What do they charge for Stockholm-Umea one-way around July?
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Old May 15, 03, 3:39 pm
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by JetE:
For low low fares, the best I've heard is Ryanair. I think they will survive. Just what we need. Their fare structure is based on single trips. Perhaps, just like THAI, they will offer flexible scheduling and last minute changes. It never hurts to ask. Good luck.

By the way, THAI seem like a great airline. What do they charge for Stockholm-Umea one-way around July?
</font>
Ryanair's problem is that it's so rock bottom, spartan and uses tertiary airports. Thus, they do not attract any business travel. Very few business travelers will put up with their type of service. Southwest (WN) on the other hand attracts a number of business travelers. Or in my case, the majors will match WN full fare pricing on competing routes, which I gladly use to my (and my clients') advantage.
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Old May 15, 03, 4:38 pm
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by gnaget:
Ryanair's problem is that it's so rock bottom, spartan and uses tertiary airports. Thus, they do not attract any business travel. Very few business travelers will put up with their type of service.</font>
The last few times I tried Easyjet & Ryanair &gt; 50% of the passengers were business travellers.

But you're right: I'd definitely agree that tertiary airports & less than ideal schedules are the biggest problems with so called low cost airlines!

Though I think it's equally true labelling old school airlines as "high cost airlines".

Anyway, in this day & age short/medium haul air travel is mass transportation - certainly no different than taking a bus.

Who needs anything else for a 1-2 hour flight, than a safe mode of transport, a somewhat decent seat and efficient ground handling?

Most people I know who lament the loss of full service airlines don't actually seem to pay for their tickets themselves, rather their employer or client is picking up the tab. I know that I certainly enjoyed collecting tonnes of FF miles when someone else payed for my tickets.

However these days, when travel money comes out of my own pocket, I wouldn't dream of paying a single DKK more than I have to, for getting from A to B. (all else being equal)

And I suspect other people running their own business feels exactly the same.

To reiterate, from a business point of view air travel is no different than taking a bus.

And that's the point SAS just don't seem to get...
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Old May 15, 03, 5:24 pm
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Sorry, was making assumptions about Ryanair. Have never flown them and hopefully it will stay that way.

SK is lucky that they don't have a competitor like WN, which flies to many primary airports. The seat pitch is the same as the majors in Y except AA and UA's E+. Doesn't Ryan have 28" or something diabolical like that? I couldn't survive that on a packed flight STO-LON, for example.

The killer with WN is the "cattle call" -- no pre-assigned seating but boarding in groups by boarding number. So the grandmother on her annual flight who arrived three hours before gets the good seat. The business traveler who paid &gt; 2X as much gets the middle seat in the back.
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Old May 16, 03, 1:11 am
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Flying-Jet, I'm getting sick'n'tired of this same thing being repeated every few weeks. Do you have something personal against SK, since this seems to be the only forum where you're complaining about the superiority of TG (domestic) fares?

Wake up, 99% of the world's "regular" (as opposed to "low-cost") carriers follow the same basic guidelines as SK. If you want flexibility, then you must pay. If you know that you'll have to travel from AAA to BBB and back on certain dates, then you can get a cheaper ticket fixed to those dates with no (or limited) possibility for changing it. That's how the industry works. You get what you pay for.

Comparing TG domestic to SK domestic is not really that easy, and even fair. As someone pointed out, you will never be able to fly TG from ARN to MMX, GOT, LLA or any other airport in Sweden (or Scandinavia in that matter).

Could you please stop repeating this same complaint over and over. Frankly, I and probably most of the other folks here have had enough of that.
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Old May 16, 03, 1:48 am
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by gnaget:
The killer with WN is the "cattle call" -- no pre-assigned seating but boarding in groups by boarding number.</font>
Yeah, WN, Easyjet etc. should definitely let travellers pick their seat on the website when they book the ticket. After all, they only fly one type of plane so they could implement this consistently. Furthermore it should be possible to check in via the web, or at least have check-in kiosks in the airport. With their otherwise extremely streamlined operation it seems like such a glaring omission.
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Old May 16, 03, 4:24 am
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WN actually DOES have self-service checkin machines at most airports they fly to.

But yes, I agree with you in that most LCCs would benefit from self-service checkins. They've already made the public to buy their own tickets from their websites, so why not take it one step further.
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Old May 16, 03, 4:28 am
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Well, to be honest, I've never flown Ryanair before but there are business travellers I know who think they are a godsend to the Swedish market. I believe Ryanair is a sizable thorn in the side for SK as far as the (greater) Stockholm market is concerned, with operations from Skavsta and Norrkoping which are within easy reach of Stockholm. As I see it, this is what pressured SK into Snowflake and re-launching Bromma.

I guess those are signs that SK are indeed endeavouring to respond to the shift in market conditions. Are they going far enough? It's hard to say... SK will try to get away with as high fares as they think they can get away with in order to maintain yields at a level higher than their cost structure. Even at the current level, they are running huge losses.

In the Swedish domestic market, SK get reprieve from the fact that the Swedish railway (SJ) still charges high prices and Malmo Aviation's presence is still localise on the GOT/MMX-STO route. If SJ restructures their fare structure and Malmo Av grow, SK will be forced into another round of overhauling the domestic service product. And if cost cutting cannot keep pace with the downward pressure on unit yield, SK may be looking at some drastic measures, including mergers or outright sale. Well, the media has apparently caught a whiff of LH lurking in the background.
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Old May 16, 03, 7:42 am
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To: Flying-Finn

I was criticize an aircompany, namely SAS, for the way they handle the ticket-restrictions on the Swedish/Nordic domestic market. I think I have the privilege to write what different things I want SAS to change on the Scandinavian market, but I am more uncertain that you have the right on your side to criticize me personally on this forum. I want SAS to survive, and thatīs why I want SAS to change their policy for normal passangers. If you want to change something to be better, you can always compare with the best, namely THAI. They really are the best on their domestic market. I will not criticize you in person, for what you are writing on this forum, but I think your idea about the Swedish domestic market are out of fashion.
If you donīt like what other FFPīs are writing about SAS, I think you should do something else. We will see who of us who have the right at the end. I am not sure it is you Mr. Flying-Finn, but I respect what you are writing, if you stop criticize people with other ideas than you have.

Regards
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Old May 16, 03, 7:54 am
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I think the reaction comes, because it is the 3 or 4 times you have started the same topic, we all know your argue and points, nothing has changed

[This message has been edited by bjerregaard (edited 05-16-2003).]
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Old May 16, 03, 8:32 am
  #15  
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I am leaving for OZ/Brisbane for work,
so now you can go on writing only posi-
tiv things about SAS Domestic Policy,
without my cooperation.

THANKīS
Flying Jet
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