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Old Jul 4, 2019, 5:19 am
  #4906  
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
 
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Originally Posted by fassy
True, no way to get to IKA any other way... And as German I'm allowed to say, our government seems to think the Mullahs are a real nice bunch anyways and kiss up to them whenever there is a chance, which involves flying a lot of engineering, bankers and government officials over there all the time to help them out. So, I guess the risk for LH is minimal. Iran would cut of their own lifeblood in form of Germoney coming in by that. I leave it at that trying to tip-toe around OMNI
OK, politics aside both Germany and Sweden have significant population that comes from Iran/former Persia that still stays in touch with their homeland generating a massive VFR traffic. As far as overflying Iranian airspace is concerned, its a significant piece of geography that cannot be avoided when flying to India, Southern China or S.E. Asia. The slots over Russia and China are extremely tight and expensive, so airlines make extensive use of the route south of the himalayas. This was done even during the peak of the Afghanistan conflict when everyone knew the cash paid for overflying was going to the Taliban regime. There was a report on how the ATC in Kabul was running the show without power and proper communication while the US & its allies were bombarding the country.

Oh and while BA is avoiding Iran, VS, a similar GB carrier, is merrily flying over Iran.
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Old Jul 4, 2019, 5:32 am
  #4907  
 
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Originally Posted by oliver2002
Germany and Sweden have significant population that comes from Iran/former Persia that still stays in touch with their homeland generating a massive VFR traffic.
True, also have a Persian brother in law... but he doesn't like to go back. Or the be more precise, he would love to but can't without ending up in a bad spot

Originally Posted by oliver2002
As far as overflying Iranian airspace is concerned, its a significant piece of geography that cannot be avoided when flying to India, Southern China or S.E. Asia. The slots over Russia and China are extremely tight and expensive, so airlines make extensive use of the route south of the himalayas. This was done even during the peak of the Afghanistan conflict when everyone knew the cash paid for overflying was going to the Taliban regime. There was a report on how the ATC in Kabul was running the show without power and proper communication while the US & its allies were bombarding the country.

Oh and while BA is avoiding Iran, VS, a similar GB carrier, is merrily flying over Iran.
Don't get me wrong. I see absolutely no reason to avoid Iranian airspace at this point in time. I just found it interesting BA is following the FAA advisory looking at BA257
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Old Jul 4, 2019, 5:59 am
  #4908  
 
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Originally Posted by GUWonder


I saw those when it had them, but never saw them at Visby. And I am at ARN, BMA and CPH enough to know what SAS has.
Just out of curiosity - when did SK stop servicing BMA?
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Old Jul 4, 2019, 6:14 am
  #4909  
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I remember flying into BMA from CPH on SAS back in 2004 or 5. The route restarted in 2003: SAS starts to fly from BMA!
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Old Jul 4, 2019, 6:18 am
  #4910  
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Originally Posted by JR67
Just out of curiosity - when did SK stop servicing BMA?
I am not sure, but I do remember a brief stint of the Dash8 do doing CPH--BMA. A guess would be that was somewhere in the range 2000 to 2005. But I don't think it even lasted a year.
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Old Jul 4, 2019, 6:56 am
  #4911  
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Originally Posted by nacho
I seriously doubt that - China and India are not friends, maybe FSU.
Business is business, and India does it with China way more than it used to do. And it would do more with the FSU and with China over airspace use were there to be a complete block of Iranian and Pakistani airspace when it comes to trying to continue service for flights to/from DEL and BOM whose routes most commonly have involved Iranian and/or Pakistani airspace use. Afghanistan is a landlocked country and the only way then in and out of it would be via the FSU, so cheap or not, it wouldn’t be much use except to waste fuel and time.

They would also shift more to going via or closer to some Arab countries too, but that doesn’t entirely preclude increased use of FSU and even Chinese airspace. Airspace shutdowns would mean paying up more, one way or another, for the airlines whose routes would be hit by a complete Iranian and Pakistani airspace closure.
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Old Jul 4, 2019, 3:23 pm
  #4912  
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Originally Posted by JR67
Just out of curiosity - when did SK stop servicing BMA?
I am not sure. But in 2015 SAS was more than fine with the possibility of BMA being shut down permanently and sold off for other uses. At around that time I think they mentioned that they had no good use for it as an airport for nearly a decade if not longer before the “shut it down” calls came.

I hope BMA remains open as an airport. But I don’t expect it to ever again have regularly scheduled SAS service.
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Old Jul 4, 2019, 4:49 pm
  #4913  
 
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Originally Posted by nacho
Exactly, where's the common sense of these people? Then your boss will have to approve an expense that's 25% more than the original cost.
As long as the rate is below the cap, neither my boss nor the auditor can reject the expenses. The global travel policies with cap's do get rid of the ridicules expensive trips, but it removes any incentive for the traveler to reduce costs when possible.

Originally Posted by nacho
Their schedule is certainly much better than LH/AF to BLR - I just don't get it why they have to arrive at BLR 1 or 3 am in the morning (my guess they need to ship people from the hubs in CDG/FRA from their US flights)
I think it's more a question of when they can get landing slots. The government want to protect their local airlines. Giving the competitors stupid landing slots is on way.

Originally Posted by nacho
I used to fly AF many years ago and at HKG the ground staff said their cabin wear and tear was insane too. I think fast wear and tear is more common in Asia than Europe, went to a newly opened Westin in Malaysia and you can already wear and tear in the room.
I'm pretty sure it's more a question of poor maintenance. If you don't fix a hole in a seat, the next kid will pick at it and make it bigger etc. A good cleaning of the carpet and seats or a polish of scratches can often make a cabin look 5 years younger.
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Old Jul 4, 2019, 5:49 pm
  #4914  
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Originally Posted by highupinthesky

I'm pretty sure it's more a question of poor maintenance. If you don't fix a hole in a seat, the next kid will pick at it and make it bigger etc. A good cleaning of the carpet and seats or a polish of scratches can often make a cabin look 5 years younger.
For hotels it is also very much a question of the quality of the original materials and the diligence of the construction workers. I was just at the Ritz Carlton Hong Kong, and while you can see that it has been in use, compared to 2011 when it opened, it still looks great. Though I have been to hotels that looked worn after less than a year, and it was mainly driven by poor construction to begin with.
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Old Jul 4, 2019, 11:10 pm
  #4915  
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Originally Posted by highupinthesky
I think it's more a question of when they can get landing slots. The government want to protect their local airlines. Giving the competitors stupid landing slots is on way.
It’s not the Indian government wanting to protect their local airlines from foreign competition. If it had been, then the joke wouldn’t be that Emirates is India’s national carrier. EK provides an international route network from India that puts to shame all Indian carriers together.

The European and European-routing North American carriers have traditionally scheduled their Indian flights mostly to arrive and depart India late at night (including the dark early morning hours) because the airlines wanted to maximize their fleet utilization and because the airlines scheduled that while keeping in mind their US and European connecting traffic in one or both directions. Once India became a major ITES center player, the European and European-transiting North American carriers decided to see what they could do to get in on the business action. Only then did the non-Indian carriers from the EU start making their schedules more useful for a person like me who may have wanted to arrive in India and stay less than 24 hours. What they encountered was the challenge of going up against India’s Emirates, Qatar and Etihad.

The North American and European carriers had dismissed Indians flyers for so long as being worth nothing more than low priced VFR traffic that by the time these carriers wanted into India in more major ways: Indian traffic was already in the pockets of SW Asian and S Asian carriers; and the network and frequency of service provided by the GCC3 had become such competitive behemoths (by way of Indian VFR demand) that the North American and European carriers couldn’t defeat them — not defeat them in regards to network, nor in frequency, nor in just about anything else that mattered enough for the Indian market.

Even with the history of the Indian government owning some Indian airlines, the Indian airline industry never got a whole lot of meaningful competitive gain from whatever protectionism Indian politicians had still been inclined to give the Indian industry in more recent decades. If anything beside problems paying for its import bills got them to open the country for more competition from more non-Indian-state-owned players, it would have been the experience of Air India/Indian Airlines being so bad that would have done that.

SAS used to serve India. But SAS’s entries and exits into the Indian market have been a sort of contrarian business indicator for how the Indian market is going to do.
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Old Jul 5, 2019, 6:50 am
  #4916  
 
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Sorry, but I don't buy the argument about the poor Indien schedule for the EU airlines being an attempt to align it with the EU and US connections. The EU connections are many through out the day, and why do you want to align with a US connection when less than 25% of your potential pax on those flights comes from US and you at the same time lose 50% of your potential EU pax?
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Old Jul 5, 2019, 7:52 am
  #4917  
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Lufthansa fills the back of the bus on their Germany-US flights with pax from India. Its been like that for ages. EK has stolen a bit of traffic from them but its still big enough to send B748 and A380s to the big cities. Even though LH/LX/SN only fly to 4-5 cities in India, they offer 18 cities in North America, which EK/EY/QR don't all fly to. The front cabin is filled with business travellers. Its all timed to pick up US arrivals in the morning and on the return arrive on time for the 10am and 1pm bank of departures to the US.
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Old Jul 5, 2019, 8:28 am
  #4918  
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Originally Posted by highupinthesky
Sorry, but I don't buy the argument about the poor Indien schedule for the EU airlines being an attempt to align it with the EU and US connections. The EU connections are many through out the day, and why do you want to align with a US connection when less than 25% of your potential pax on those flights comes from US and you at the same time lose 50% of your potential EU pax?
Maybe the potential pax going from India to the US via the EU are willing to pay enough? When Mr. told his Indian employees that he flew AI to BLR, they were shocked and asked him why did he choose AI. Mr. said it's cheap, schedule fits him great and there's nothing wrong with it. They were expecting Mr said LH/AF. I guess some Indians are like some Chinese, not be proud of their flag carrier. My Chinese friends looked at me in disbelief when I told them I flew CA - they almost wanted to ask what is wrong with you -SK is better (they don't even eat the food on SK). I asked them what's wrong with CA and they couldn't say a thing - I said on CA you get full service - 2 full meal from CPH-PEK, and you can get whatever to drink at anytime in Y, service was a lot better too. The AC is old but at least there's better legroom and the seat itself is thicker than those paper thin seats in the 787 or renovated UA 772/3.
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Old Jul 5, 2019, 4:32 pm
  #4919  
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Originally Posted by highupinthesky
Sorry, but I don't buy the argument about the poor Indien schedule for the EU airlines being an attempt to align it with the EU and US connections. The EU connections are many through out the day, and why do you want to align with a US connection when less than 25% of your potential pax on those flights comes from US and you at the same time lose 50% of your potential EU pax?
It’s not been a poor schedule for the EU+ carriers who wouldn’t have been able to make India service work like it did without India-related traffic originating or terminating in the US/Canada going via Europe. And between the history of non-redeye TATL flights to Europe — not a whole lot of such non-redeyes for most of the past three decades (and even less when excluding AF and BA Concorde services) — and the onward schedule from Europe to India, the EU+ carriers had the schedules the EU+ and North American airlines wanted for India and worked for them for most of the last 30 years.

If I had little to no familiarity with the history of aviation in India, it would be easier to be susceptible to blaming the Indian government for the European airlines scheduled to and from India.

Last edited by GUWonder; Jul 5, 2019 at 4:42 pm
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Old Jul 6, 2019, 2:48 am
  #4920  
 
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Originally Posted by highupinthesky
In Tokyo they manage to run it day after day with only minimal delays and almost no cancellations.
[OT] We’re about to manufacture one of our niche products specifically for the Japanese market and, as involved in launches/transfers from a supply chain/technical perspective, I was sent to Tokyo in order to attend some courses, amongst those one which threw a few lights on Japanese culture. The chap running the course didn’t even introduce himself and went straight to the point: “No matter of big and known your organisation is, you’re about to ‘enter’ a country where a train operator was forced to apologise after a service arrived 20 seconds earlier”...

Amongst other things, I was left wondering how all those Japanese tourists could possibly cope with the archaic British railway system... When people here complain about Germany/Denmark/Sweden, I’m guessing they never got on a train in the UK or perhaps their experience is merely limited to tube, DLR or overground, LOL. [/OT]

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