Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > SAS | EuroBonus
Reload this Page >

Collective agreement for the pilots being negotiated

Collective agreement for the pilots being negotiated

Old Jul 22, 22, 10:49 am
  #526  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: CPH
Programs: UAMP S, TK M&S E (*G), Marriott P, IHG P
Posts: 9,350
Originally Posted by fassy View Post
If you are in CPH area anyway at some point, drop by the ticket desk in CPH departure/arrivals hall. Had quite good experience there with a very helpful lady sorting out the mess SK did with a couple of reservations....
Thanks! I don't want to deal with this now in order to give other people can get a chance of get a hold o SK regarding rebooking. Mr said they should sort the name change back to the original name out without a charge - and he said I should give the customer service a chance to fix the mess before deciding to cancel the flight to HND. The CSR who hung up on me ought to know that name change is not possible for flights that's not operated by SK (it's just incredible that he changed a flight to a completely different destination and more than half a year from now).

The original plan after I got stranded was to get Mr. to SK ticketing counter to ask them to rebook me after they landed at CPH. I told him forget it after I found out the "do not rebook" remark and SAS CS doesn't have the authority to override it.

No matter how you twist and turn with my saga, it's SAS's fault. That CSR should have rebooked me to another flight instead of changing my name to another flight that has nothing to do with this.
nacho is offline  
Old Jul 23, 22, 3:09 am
  #527  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tokyo
Programs: JAL Metal Card (OWE), SAS Eurobonus Diamond (*G), Marriott Ambassador (LTP), Tokyu Hotels Platinum
Posts: 17,038
The union that organises the pilots and cabin crew for SAS Link and SAS Connect is now accusing Dansk Metal of using the strike not to get better terms for their members, but to push out them as a union in SAS. And points to the fact that some of the demands that led to the strike is now being repeated the upcoming negotiations of the cabin crew contract, and that the main aim for Dansk Metal in those negotiations is another strike.

Fun stuff when even the unions starts fighting.
CPH-Flyer is online now  
Old Jul 23, 22, 3:15 am
  #528  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Stockholm
Programs: Various
Posts: 3,263
Originally Posted by CPH-Flyer View Post
The union that organises the pilots and cabin crew for SAS Link and SAS Connect is now accusing Dansk Metal of using the strike not to get better terms for their members, but to push out them as a union in SAS. And points to the fact that some of the demands that led to the strike is now being repeated the upcoming negotiations of the cabin crew contract, and that the main aim for Dansk Metal in those negotiations is another strike.

Fun stuff when even the unions starts fighting.
Didn't they understand they were being used by SAS?
Fredrik74 is offline  
Old Jul 23, 22, 3:36 am
  #529  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 99,584
Originally Posted by Fredrik74 View Post
Didn't they understand they were being used by SAS?
They probably understood. But people can be very territorial, especially when they feel like they are the appointed leaders of an area and don’t want to have their positions questioned or otherwise challenged on substantive points or otherwise.

Divide and conquer plays well when dealing with territorial, unchecked egos.
GUWonder is offline  
Old Jul 23, 22, 5:52 am
  #530  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UME 🇸🇪 / NWI🇬🇧
Programs: SJ, SAS, DL
Posts: 1,373
I noticed that Norsk Flygerforbund, who were very vocal and active on social media during the strike, have been very silent since the end of the dispute. I get the sense that theyre not exactly elated with the outcome.
jamesbrownontheroad is offline  
Old Jul 23, 22, 5:52 am
  #531  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tokyo
Programs: JAL Metal Card (OWE), SAS Eurobonus Diamond (*G), Marriott Ambassador (LTP), Tokyu Hotels Platinum
Posts: 17,038
Originally Posted by Fredrik74 View Post
Didn't they understand they were being used by SAS?
Both by SK and Dansk Metal. But now Dansk Metal is probably lining up for another strike to expand their influence at the expense of their members and the passengers.
CPH-Flyer is online now  
Old Jul 23, 22, 7:01 am
  #532  
ksu
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: KSU (Kristiansund N, Norway)
Programs: SAS EBD/ *G
Posts: 2,148
Originally Posted by jamesbrownontheroad View Post
I noticed that Norsk Flygerforbund, who were very vocal and active on social media during the strike, have been very silent since the end of the dispute. I get the sense that theyre not exactly elated with the outcome.
All the unions are having a ballot whether to accept the agreement, so there is not really much to say publicly until then .
ksu is offline  
Old Jul 23, 22, 3:19 pm
  #533  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 99,584
Originally Posted by CPH-Flyer View Post
Both by SK and Dansk Metal. But now Dansk Metal is probably lining up for another strike to expand their influence at the expense of their members and the passengers.
SAS’s unionized workforce members would be in a less impotent position vis-a-vis SAS management’s Machiavellian plays if they would consolidate under fewer umbrellas and be more like one force under one big umbrella.
GUWonder is offline  
Old Jul 23, 22, 6:05 pm
  #534  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tokyo
Programs: JAL Metal Card (OWE), SAS Eurobonus Diamond (*G), Marriott Ambassador (LTP), Tokyu Hotels Platinum
Posts: 17,038
Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
SASs unionized workforce members would be in a less impotent position vis-a-vis SAS managements Machiavellian plays if they would consolidate under fewer umbrellas and be more like one force under one big umbrella.
So when it is Machiavellian to have a cheaper cost regional operations company (SAS Link) and when is it just par for the course (AA Envoy, J-Air, Qantas Link, ANA Wings, KLM Cityhopper, you continue the list it is pretty long)?

They might be, but that would normally be managed through a vote amongst the members of the two unions, not using a strike to force it through without the involvement of members on both sides.
FlyingMoose likes this.
CPH-Flyer is online now  
Old Jul 23, 22, 6:19 pm
  #535  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 99,584
Originally Posted by CPH-Flyer View Post
They might be, but that would normally be managed through a vote amongst the members of the two unions, not using a strike to force it through without the involvement of members on both sides.
In SAS home market countries, can employees in one union be required to join a different union if the majority of the former's members refuse to vote in favor of joining the latter?

Elections have consequences. Does the strike eliminate employee voting on unionization decisions?
GUWonder is offline  
Old Jul 23, 22, 6:22 pm
  #536  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tokyo
Programs: JAL Metal Card (OWE), SAS Eurobonus Diamond (*G), Marriott Ambassador (LTP), Tokyu Hotels Platinum
Posts: 17,038
Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
In SAS home market countries, can employees in one union be required to join a different union if the majority of the former's members refuse to vote in favor of joining the latter?

Elections have consequences.
You are technically not required to be a member of the union that holds the collective agreement for a given company, but usually in workplaces with very strong union presence you will be subjected to an awful lot of pressure to comply. "We are the Borg, resistance is futile, you will be assimilated"
FlyingMoose likes this.
CPH-Flyer is online now  
Old Jul 23, 22, 6:32 pm
  #537  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 99,584
Originally Posted by CPH-Flyer View Post
You are technically not required to be a member of the union that holds the collective agreement for a given company, but usually in workplaces with very strong union presence you will be subjected to an awful lot of pressure to comply. "We are the Borg, resistance is futile, you will be assimilated"
The Borg can’t assimilate me. [There’s a lot of overlap between EBDs and Star Trek.]

Assuming a supposedly competent adult with free will, choosing to cave in to peer pressure (or not) is an individual decision where the person is exercising their will in a world where there are consequences from, and limitations around, the decision-making and the decision.

So these unionized employees will get a vote to determine how they want their union membership to be structured going forward? And then they have a personal choice to agree or not to join the majority following the election? Sounds like a liberal democracy in action.
CPH-Flyer likes this.

Last edited by GUWonder; Jul 23, 22 at 6:42 pm
GUWonder is offline  
Old Jul 23, 22, 6:43 pm
  #538  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tokyo
Programs: JAL Metal Card (OWE), SAS Eurobonus Diamond (*G), Marriott Ambassador (LTP), Tokyu Hotels Platinum
Posts: 17,038
Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
The Borg cant assimilate me. [Theres a lot of overlap between EBDs and Star Trek.]

Assuming a supposedly competent adult with free will, choosing to cave in to peer pressure (or not) is an individual decision where the person is exercising their will in a world where there are consequences and limitations arising from the decision-making and decision.
I am guessing that you are not in a work place with a strong union representation for your role? So the Borg will not see value in adding you to the collective?

There has been some very nasty cases where pressure to join the appropriate union has gone into serious bullying, other people having refused to work on a shift with the scab. (technically they would not be a scab unless there is a strike, but the rhetoric "skruebrkker" have been applied for this as well) and people have literally been forced to quit.


There are dark sides to unions as well, despite me believing that overall the sum of union activities in Scandinavia has been positive. But what does not have a dark side?
CPH-Flyer is online now  
Old Jul 23, 22, 6:46 pm
  #539  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tokyo
Programs: JAL Metal Card (OWE), SAS Eurobonus Diamond (*G), Marriott Ambassador (LTP), Tokyu Hotels Platinum
Posts: 17,038
Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post

So these unionized employees will get a vote to determine how they want their union membership to be structured going forward? And then they have a personal choice to agree or not to join the majority following the election? Sounds like a liberal democracy in action.
They have a theoretical and legal choice yes, not always a practical choice. Or at least not an easy practical choice.

For the unions it is also about internal power balance amongst the unions. Who is the biggest, who carries the most weight and influence.
CPH-Flyer is online now  
Old Jul 23, 22, 7:38 pm
  #540  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 99,584
Originally Posted by CPH-Flyer View Post
So the Borg will not see value in adding you to the collective?

There has been some very nasty cases where pressure to join the appropriate union has gone into serious bullying, other people having refused to work on a shift with the scab. (technically they would not be a scab unless there is a strike, but the rhetoric "skruebrkker" have been applied for this as well) and people have literally been forced to quit.


There are dark sides to unions as well, despite me believing that overall the sum of union activities in Scandinavia has been positive. But what does not have a dark side?
The collective would not mourn if I were more than kept at a distance and even exiled.

Wherever there are people, there is always bound to be some element of the dark side. But have SAS employees extensively engaged in illegal attempts to coerce or remove non-unionized employees working beside unionized colleagues?

Whether at mostly/entirely non-unionized employers or in non-unionized positions, it seems Scandinavian employers and employees are a lot about “cultural fit” too. The same sort of interest in “cultural fit” among unionized and non-unionized colleagues in Scandinavia is par for the course.

Last edited by GUWonder; Jul 23, 22 at 7:44 pm
GUWonder is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread