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Collective agreement for the pilots being negotiated

Collective agreement for the pilots being negotiated

Old Jul 19, 22, 3:42 pm
  #481  
 
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Originally Posted by WindowSeatFlyer View Post
I guess you need to tell Elon Musk that he needs to stop taking vacations to become successful and perform better. 🤣🤣🤣

Shirtless Elon Musk vacations in Mykonos on luxury yacht

Oooops, so much for your work yourself into the ground or you wont be successful theories 😂😂😂
I saw what you did there....
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Old Jul 19, 22, 6:57 pm
  #482  
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Originally Posted by FlyingMoose View Post
Do you really fly an airline based on the CEO? Do you make any consumer decisions based on the CEO? Especially when there are no equivalent alternatives? I can understand people not buying products or services based on the country of origin but not because of a company's CEO. I found previous CEOs of SAS much more laughable than Anko, specifically Matts Jansson but it never caused me not to fly with SAS when they were the most plausible option.
Consumers base their choice on trust. The SAS strike destroying the vacation for thousands has given SAS a huge PR problem, irrespective of who is to blame. When the SAS CEO is let loose on TV without his minders, ranting about his employees, he worsens the PR catastrophe, and is seen as unpredictable. The end result is that SAS is seen as even less trustworthy among the consumers in what is often presumed to be SAS' most lucrative market.
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Old Jul 19, 22, 7:34 pm
  #483  
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Originally Posted by ksu View Post
Consumers base their choice on trust. The SAS strike destroying the vacation for thousands has given SAS a huge PR problem, irrespective of who is to blame. When the SAS CEO is let loose on TV without his minders, ranting about his employees, he worsens the PR catastrophe, and is seen as unpredictable. The end result is that SAS is seen as even less trustworthy among the consumers in what is often presumed to be SAS' most lucrative market.
Consumers have a remarkably short memory, it is a big thing now. 2-3 months down the road no one cares any longer. Which is why Ryanair keeps flying, despite so many people saying never again. The perpetuity of consumers' statements is pretty brief.

As the strike is over, people will settle back in to just picking flights based on price and convenience. Depends a bit on how long the media feels entertained by running stories about people who got caught up in the cancellations.

When Air France, BA, Lufthansa have had their big strike periods, there were plenty of consumers in the media swearing to never fly them again, as they were not trust worthy, and treated customers so poorly, etc etc. They still seem to be doing pretty well in the Scandinavian markets.....
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Old Jul 19, 22, 7:37 pm
  #484  
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Anyone with a rudimentary level of understanding of the airline industry understands the role Richard Branson played in Virgin Atlantic’s branding and corporate image.
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Old Jul 20, 22, 2:22 am
  #485  
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Originally Posted by CPH-Flyer View Post
Consumers have a remarkably short memory, it is a big thing now. 2-3 months down the road no one cares any longer. Which is why Ryanair keeps flying, despite so many people saying never again. The perpetuity of consumers' statements is pretty brief.

As the strike is over, people will settle back in to just picking flights based on price and convenience. Depends a bit on how long the media feels entertained by running stories about people who got caught up in the cancellations.

When Air France, BA, Lufthansa have had their big strike periods, there were plenty of consumers in the media swearing to never fly them again, as they were not trust worthy, and treated customers so poorly, etc etc. They still seem to be doing pretty well in the Scandinavian markets.....
How is Ryanair doing on its intra-Sweden flights? I don’t know anyone who flies those RyanAir flights, as their reputation doesn’t seem to do them any great favors in grabbing passengers from SAS. For all the egalitarian talk that Sweden puts up, it’s very much an image-conscious, brand-conscious place that walks — rather runs — against the egalitarian talk. Flying RyanAir would be like slumming it, right?

Short memory or not, disillusionment among a market’s customers is not good for short-term business. And in the long-term we are all dead — and eventually so too the zombie SAS will find its final rest.

Originally Posted by ksu View Post
Consumers base their choice on trust. The SAS strike destroying the vacation for thousands has given SAS a huge PR problem, irrespective of who is to blame. When the SAS CEO is let loose on TV without his minders, ranting about his employees, he worsens the PR catastrophe, and is seen as unpredictable. The end result is that SAS is seen as even less trustworthy among the consumers in what is often presumed to be SAS' most lucrative market.
Indeed, but doesn’t the near-term financial damage (from lost customers going forward) get papered over and wiped out by the Chapter 11 bankruptcy plot?

Last edited by GUWonder; Jul 20, 22 at 2:32 am
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Old Jul 20, 22, 3:02 am
  #486  
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
How is Ryanair doing on its intra-Sweden flights? I dont know anyone who flies those RyanAir flights, as their reputation doesnt seem to do them any great favors in grabbing passengers from SAS. For all the egalitarian talk that Sweden puts up, its very much an image-conscious, brand-conscious place that walks rather runs against the egalitarian talk. Flying RyanAir would be like slumming it, right?

Short memory or not, disillusionment among a markets customers is not good for short-term business. And in the long-term we are all dead and eventually so too the zombie SAS will find its final rest.
I didn't even know FR flew domestic in Sweden. But I have a big round zero for domestic flying in Sweden, so that may be part of the reason. How is FR performing on international flights from Sweden? It has not always been all rosy.

Years ago when FR launched from "Oslo", my colleagues would fly them, end up eternally complaining about how bad it was, complain about going that far to get the airport (TRF). But come next vacation they were on FR again because it was cheap. Rinse and repeat.

Consumer principles rarely last that long. Depends a bit on the principle though, the principle of "I will never fly low cost carriers" is more likely to stick than "I will never fly SAS again due to this strike".

A lot of the complaints I have read are from package tour guests, who anyway have little influence on what airline they fly. The contract might not even be finalised when they book the trip. There SK may meet a more stern group, the CEOs of the big travel groups. They might want to shift some contracts, then again it is all about price for them, so if the deal is good enough SK will get next summer as well.
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Old Jul 20, 22, 3:16 am
  #487  
 
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Originally Posted by CPH-Flyer View Post
Years ago when FR launched from "Oslo", my colleagues would fly them, end up eternally complaining about how bad it was, complain about going that far to get the airport (TRF). But come next vacation they were on FR again because it was cheap. Rinse and repeat.
Well, I know more than enough colleagues and friends which have been burned by booking FR to some place, just to end up at a secondary airport hundreds of km away from their destination.... those NEVER booked FR again. Even in situations where it would made sense. And then I have a couple of colleges which buy the cheapest ticket. Always. FR? Sure! WizzAir... of course... some shady tour operator chartering a flight from CPH to Morocco on a tiny Greek airline having just two 50+ years old birds? If it is cheap... yeah, definitely.

While I am totally on the other side. I only book major carriers. And happily pay for it. Even if service on some of them degrade to FR levels. As I just value the route network and handling in irrops, e.g. at the time Norwegian started their long-haul flights to the US and the 787 going tech all the time, we had a meeting on the east coast. I booked LH, a couple of colleagues DY and tried to shame me how ridiculous expensive my flight was compared to theirs. Well, I was back in EU the week after while they were still looking for a way to get home. As we had several important meetings, some of them had to book one-way flights on LH/UA. They learned the lesson.
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Old Jul 20, 22, 3:19 am
  #488  
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I remember when FR called MMX Copenhagen. MMX is more suitable for the Blekinge townies than for the Copenhagen city slickers, but there was FR with its game not forgotten. Nowadays FR call it Malm — be it as it is that MMX isn’t even in Malm.

Last edited by GUWonder; Jul 20, 22 at 3:29 am
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Old Jul 20, 22, 3:19 am
  #489  
 
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Most, if not all, of Ryanairs domestic flying in Sweden is operated by their subsidiaries Malta Air or (occasionally) Buzz. The product/service is the same. One route where they seem to hold their own is SFT-ARN, where a big immigrant workforce (Northvolt etc) doesnt have any of the apparently negative Swedish preconceptions about FR. They dont even fly daily - just three or four times a week to catch the weekly commuters.

(It is a source of some local amusement that for a company so concerned with reducing greenhouse emissions by building EV batteries, rather a lot of Northvoly employees commute weekly, even daily, to Skellefte by plane).
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Old Jul 20, 22, 3:28 am
  #490  
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
I remember when FR called MMX Copenhagen. MMX is more suitable for the Blekinge townies than for the Copenhagen city slickers, but there was FR with its game not forgotten.
London Copenhagen. LTN MMX. That's a lot of airport transport time....
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Old Jul 20, 22, 3:50 am
  #491  
 
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Originally Posted by CPH-Flyer View Post
London Copenhagen. LTN MMX. That's a lot of airport transport time....
Well, at least both LTN and MMX are accessible... ever tried to get from Frankfurt Hahn (HHN) to Frankfort city? Or from Skavsta to Stockholm? Those were really miserable rides. But to be honest, FR has beefed up their game over the last few years and dropped many of the too crazy secondary airports and securing slots at major airports. Best example are ARN and CPH

Btw, I think FR is now using STN not LTN...
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Old Jul 20, 22, 4:18 am
  #492  
 
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Originally Posted by FlyingMoose View Post
I know that Scandinavians keep telling themselves this but as someone who hasn't taken vacation in over 30 years, I can tell you that is not true. The main issue I have with it being a legal obligation is that it removes the employee's choice. Not taking vacation and working harder are great ways to put yourself ahead of the curve for promotions and raises which the government now makes impossible.



I do, Sweden doesn't enforce this at all and employers while not obligated to generally pay out the unused holidays at the end of the year.



Please, this was not a labor dispute, this was a company on the verge of bankruptcy trying to survive. The Norwegian media just continued the same tune they have been playing since the 1920s.



The general Swedish attitude is finally taking the impact on the consumer serious rather than conveniently ignoring it and focusing on the poor employees. We're all consumers, we're not all employees, so this makes a lot of sense to me. Scandinavian consumer protection is a joke and is an area that will need a lot of attention in the coming years because people are fed up with it.



Yet the most successful people work 100 hours a week, successfully. If you tell yourself you need vacation, you're going to perform less.
You may make a lot of money, but it sounds to me like you have an amazingly poor quality of life, Maybe you are happy.. Maybe you need to reassess your priorities
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Old Jul 20, 22, 4:44 am
  #493  
 
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I'm not a moderator, but were I a moderator I might suggest that it's time to nudge the conversation back towards the subject of the thread.
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Old Jul 20, 22, 5:14 am
  #494  
 
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CGI as in media?
CGI as in computer generated imagery, think at the most advanced level.

Originally Posted by Fredrik74 View Post
I wonder why i, and everyone I know, is asked when we're about to use our remaining vacation days then? The rule is there to prevent managers with your mindset to set the tone.
You're still not good at reading. I never said anyone should not have vacation days or not take them. I am saying people who do not take vacation and bring increased productivity should be rewarded greater than those who work 6 weeks less.

Companies are of course free to ask you or motivate you to take your vacation and I do believe you're obligated to take it if there is an industrial vacation which typically doesn't apply to white collar work.

Originally Posted by fassy View Post
I’d bet more like CGI as in competitor to Accenture, Capgemini, Cognizant, Infosys, Oracle, Cisco, IBM…
Negative.

Originally Posted by WindowSeatFlyer View Post
I guess you need to tell Elon Musk that he needs to stop taking vacations to become successful and perform better. 🤣🤣🤣
I'm sure the richest person on the planet has nothing to prove/gain.

Originally Posted by the810 View Post
I will once again refer you to WizzAir's attempt to enter Norwegian market. Yes, local customers do care about how companies treat their employees.
Was it a successful attempt? Nothing stops companies from trying, are people really picking WizzAir because of how they treat their employees or because they are cheap?

Originally Posted by ksu View Post
Consumers base their choice on trust. The SAS strike destroying the vacation for thousands has given SAS a huge PR problem, irrespective of who is to blame. When the SAS CEO is let loose on TV without his minders, ranting about his employees, he worsens the PR catastrophe, and is seen as unpredictable. The end result is that SAS is seen as even less trustworthy among the consumers in what is often presumed to be SAS' most lucrative market.
If you continue to believe it was SAS's doing then we must read different news. The unions decided to strike in prime vacation season and not in March. The union pilots kept the planes grounded not SAS. If either party really cared about the vacations of Norwegians we wouldn't have had a strike at this time a year.

Originally Posted by CPH-Flyer View Post
Consumers have a remarkably short memory, it is a big thing now. 2-3 months down the road no one cares any longer. Which is why Ryanair keeps flying, despite so many people saying never again. The perpetuity of consumers' statements is pretty brief.
Bingo!

Originally Posted by WindowSeatFlyer View Post
Anyone with a rudimentary level of understanding of the airline industry understands the role Richard Branson played in Virgin Atlantic’s branding and corporate image.
But Branson's image was a reason to fly the airline and the same reason why VS got to be a preferred and continues to be a preferred airline for anyone that has a choice of airlines.
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Old Jul 20, 22, 5:21 am
  #495  
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Originally Posted by fassy View Post
Well, I know more than enough colleagues and friends which have been burned by booking FR to some place, just to end up at a secondary airport hundreds of km away from their destination.... those NEVER booked FR again. Even in situations where it would made sense. And then I have a couple of colleges which buy the cheapest ticket. Always. FR? Sure! WizzAir... of course... some shady tour operator chartering a flight from CPH to Morocco on a tiny Greek airline having just two 50+ years old birds? If it is cheap... yeah, definitely.

While I am totally on the other side. I only book major carriers. And happily pay for it. Even if service on some of them degrade to FR levels. As I just value the route network and handling in irrops, e.g. at the time Norwegian started their long-haul flights to the US and the 787 going tech all the time, we had a meeting on the east coast. I booked LH, a couple of colleagues DY and tried to shame me how ridiculous expensive my flight was compared to theirs. Well, I was back in EU the week after while they were still looking for a way to get home. As we had several important meetings, some of them had to book one-way flights on LH/UA. They learned the lesson.
I am also avoiding LCCs, and it is not really for the onboard service in Y on European flights. But yes the bigger picture.

I have yet to try Ryanair. I did try Easyjet once Copenhagen to Berlin and back as SK had gutted the schedule, the following week I flew Lufthansa via Frankfurt one way and Munich the other. I have not flown Norwegian since 2009, though I have to say back then they ran a pretty tight ship on the Scandinavian capital city triangle.

In the longer or shorter term this strike has not moved my overall willingness to book SK. I have bookings with them coming up, and see no reason to change those. While not all rebookings have been handled well, and some people did get stuck, I do get an impression that a lot of SK staff did a lot of hard work to make things happen. I knew the HR head of an AF/KLM region during the last big AF pilot strike. They went through hell to try to manage the rebookings, but the system is just not geared for the load of calls.
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