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Old Aug 13, 19, 10:06 am
  #16  
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Originally Posted by JR67 View Post
Just out of curiosity... Why does anyone ski in Sweden? The runs are crap. The weather is crap. The prices are way higher than Austria, The food sucks,

I live in Malmö and happily drive to Austria to avoid the pain of being in the Swedish "mountains"....
The drive from Malmo to St Anton am Arlberg is over 14 hours, and there is no rest when driving, whether or not doing it in one day or over two.

Driving is more dangerous and maybe otherwise more costly than taking a flight or train to ski in Sweden.

The cost for ski rentals and accommodations on the slope are cheaper in Åre and Sälen than in Austria, at least when planned in advance. The costs for ski school are lower (and often free for young kids) at these two Skistar places in Sweden than they are in St Anton in Austria. Food prices? Austria isn’t cheap either. Are the Austrian ski conditions better in December and January? Yes, but I do most of my northern hemisphere skiing in February and March and then it’s more of a wash with weather and lift hours.
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Old Aug 13, 19, 10:08 am
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Originally Posted by JR67 View Post
Just out of curiosity... Why does anyone ski in Sweden? The runs are crap. The weather is crap. The prices are way higher than Austria, The food sucks,

I live in Malmö and happily drive to Austria to avoid the pain of being in the Swedish "mountains"....
Never been up there - however my kids' school has a ski trip every February to go up there and the cost is like 10000 SEK which I think it's insane. For that price I can actually fly to Denver and drive up daily to ski.

The closest place you can ski is Hallandsås from Malmö, I haven't been there but if it's a cheap solution or can only go there for a day then it's a good alternative compared to drive all the way down to Austria.
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Old Aug 13, 19, 10:19 am
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Originally Posted by nacho View Post
Never been up there - however my kids' school has a ski trip every February to go up there and the cost is like 10000 SEK which I think it's insane. For that price I can actually fly to Denver and drive up daily to ski.

The closest place you can ski is Hallandsås from Malmö, I haven't been there but if it's a cheap solution or can only go there for a day then it's a good alternative compared to drive all the way down to Austria.
Is that for a trip when schools in the country are largely closed for the week? Those weeks tend to be expensive weeks to ski.

The price of just lift tickets, equipment rental and food and a couple of hours of group lessons for a 12-year-old skiing for 7 days at Steamboat, Aspen, Vail, Copper, Snowmass in Colorado will easily cost more than 10k SEK. The cost of the just the lift tickets at Colorado resorts are the reason why multi-resort season passes make so much sense for my relatives. Accommodations during popular domestic school break periods can easily break the bank for a lot of people. Flying into Denver to ski is a bigger pain than flying into Salt Lake City to ski, as the better ski resorts are 90+ minutes from DEN airport while they are less than half as far from SLC.

Åre and Sälen seem to be getting more and more Danish and British skiers than used to be the case several years ago, and there must be a reason for that when ski-related flight options from CPH and UK airports can more easily get to say the Alps. The SCR flights should add to Danes and Brits skiing in Sweden. It will also add to Swedes skiing in Sweden.
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Old Aug 13, 19, 11:02 am
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
The drive from Malmo to St Anton am Arlberg is over 14 hours, and there is no rest when driving, whether or not doing it in one day or over two.

Driving is more dangerous and maybe otherwise more costly than taking a flight or train to ski in Sweden.
Well, I don’t drive... I fly and take a rental in Austria/France/Italy or the occasional trip to CH (which obviously is not cheaper than Sweden).

i can’t really see how AT is not cheaper than Sweden?

in addition in AT it is much easier to spent some leisure day in a nice town or do something else besides skiing.
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Old Aug 13, 19, 11:36 am
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Originally Posted by fassy View Post


Well, I don’t drive... I fly and take a rental in Austria/France/Italy or the occasional trip to CH (which obviously is not cheaper than Sweden).

i can’t really see how AT is not cheaper than Sweden?

in addition in AT it is much easier to spent some leisure day in a nice town or do something else besides skiing.
My observation of driving in Skane when there is a bit of snow on the road is that the locals tend to be about as good at it as drivers in Washington, DC. In other words, I wouldn’t want to see most of these people driving in the mountains anywhere in winter time.

As much as I’m used to driving in very icy and snowy conditions as someone used to much more extremely cold weather than most non-Skane Swedes experience, I am not a big fan of driving for ski trips. This is one of the main reasons I choose Aspen and Park City over say Vail or Whistler — I would rather have as short a drive as possible and prefer to not need a car during my ski trips or minimize use of a car.

Yes, Austria has more interesting stuff closer by for non-ski-days than can be said for Swedish ski areas but I can have two or 3 nights of ski fun in Swedish ski places during non-school-holiday periods for the cost of a night’s accommodation in St Anton.
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Old Aug 13, 19, 12:21 pm
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post


Is that for a trip when schools in the country are largely closed for the week? Those weeks tend to be expensive weeks to ski.

The price of just lift tickets, equipment rental and food and a couple of hours of group lessons for a 12-year-old skiing for 7 days at Steamboat, Aspen, Vail, Copper, Snowmass in Colorado will easily cost more than 10k SEK. The cost of the just the lift tickets at Colorado resorts are the reason why multi-resort season passes make so much sense for my relatives. Accommodations during popular domestic school break periods can easily break the bank for a lot of people. Flying into Denver to ski is a bigger pain than flying into Salt Lake City to ski, as the better ski resorts are 90+ minutes from DEN airport while they are less than half as far from SLC.

Åre and Sälen seem to be getting more and more Danish and British skiers than used to be the case several years ago, and there must be a reason for that when ski-related flight options from CPH and UK airports can more easily get to say the Alps. The SCR flights should add to Danes and Brits skiing in Sweden. It will also add to Swedes skiing in Sweden.
Yep, it's during the holiday (otherwise you need to take days off). It's bus trip up and down so they actually only had like max 5 days to ski.

We went to Loveland to ski (we stayed at Breck but Loveland was the only thing that was opened at that time) and Mr. and the kids had a private lesson ($400 for 4 people for 3 hours lesson with everything included), and I saw one of the places offer free lift pass for kids under 12. I think Tahoe was cheaper (an hour lesson and free play afterwards), and it was fun to see the kids ski in t-shirt.

Haven't been to SLC yet, DEN was cheaper to fly into with *A.
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Old Aug 13, 19, 1:09 pm
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Originally Posted by JR67 View Post
Just out of curiosity... Why does anyone ski in Sweden? The runs are crap. The weather is crap. The prices are way higher than Austria, The food sucks,
Cross country skiiing in the Alps is generally very poor. And Sweden is cheaper than Norway.
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Old Aug 13, 19, 1:11 pm
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post


Unlike with Åre, Salen doesn’t work so well with the train. The SJ and Veolia/Snalltaget trains go right to Åre C and I’ve taken them a bunch of times to/from Åre. Can’t do that with Salen.

The night trains to Åre work fine on and off paper. The night trains to Åre are one of my staples for a few ski trips each year.

For Salen, the closest a train gets me to there on the Swedish side of the mountains: nearly 2 hours away by road, in Mora. And one of the few times where I’ve taken that drive, I’ve been stuck in “traffic” on the road for nearly two hours due to a disabled vehicle or two. So that was an exceptional nearly four hours of sitting on a bus.

I prefer a train or flight to having a 1+ hour bus trip on top of a train or flight. And so unless I’m late for the night trains to Åre, I try not to fly to OSD for my Åre ski trips.
Aggree! I misread your post. The 'unlike'-part.... Sorry.
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Old Aug 13, 19, 1:39 pm
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Originally Posted by Tango Alpha View Post
Aggree! I misread your post. The 'unlike'-part.... Sorry.
For the TRD flights to ski, how is the journey from TRD to Are? I’ve only come from the OSD-side when flying to get there, but TRD would work fine for me from CPH too. It seems to be a longer drive than OSD, but connecting at ARN to get to/from OSD is brutal at times.
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Old Aug 13, 19, 1:42 pm
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
My observation of driving in Skane when there is a bit of snow on the road is that the locals tend to be about as good at it as drivers in Washington, DC. In other words, I wouldn’t want to see most of these people driving in the mountains anywhere in winter time.


very true! But you won’t need to fear about me behind a wheel in icy conditions. I‘m German, born to drive!

(but driving in Northern Germany with 1/2“ of snow is about the same as in Skane)

Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
As much as I’m used to driving in very icy and snowy conditions as someone used to much more extremely cold weather than most non-Skane Swedes experience, I am not a big fan of driving for ski trips.
I usually do not do skiing-only vacation but combine it with some hiking, city-trips, good dining, etc. so decent mobility at the location makes it much easier.
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Old Aug 13, 19, 3:18 pm
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Originally Posted by fassy View Post


very true! But you won’t need to fear about me behind a wheel in icy conditions. I‘m German, born to drive!

(but driving in Northern Germany with 1/2“ of snow is about the same as in Skane)

I usually do not do skiing-only vacation but combine it with some hiking, city-trips, good dining, etc. so decent mobility at the location makes it much easier.
A lot of Swedes in Southern Sweden used studded tyres which I think it's not necessary at all and it doesn't work well on slush ice roads like we have here in Southern Sweden/DK/Northern Germany. I drove with studded tyres once when we first bought our car and we replaced it with non-studded as we were driving to Germany. The non-studded tyres were much better - much better grip and better control.

M-Sverige (ADAC Swedish version) is trying to push for a ban on studded tyres in Southern Sweden and I'm all in for that - all they did was scratching surface of the road without providing extra control on road with slush ice.

We also prefer a vacation without being trapped in one place - it was nice to stay a couple of days in a mountain resort but it's nice to get to do something else too.
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Old Aug 14, 19, 2:13 am
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post


For the TRD flights to ski, how is the journey from TRD to Are? I’ve only come from the OSD-side when flying to get there, but TRD would work fine for me from CPH too. It seems to be a longer drive than OSD, but connecting at ARN to get to/from OSD is brutal at times.
Fine drive and good road from TRD (which is on the 'right' side of Trondheim). Just under 2 hours under normal driving conditions. The part around the border might be vulnerable to bad weather. From OSD it is a bit over 1 hour.
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Old Aug 14, 19, 6:24 am
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post


The drive from Malmo to St Anton am Arlberg is over 14 hours, and there is no rest when driving, whether or not doing it in one day or over two.

Driving is more dangerous and maybe otherwise more costly than taking a flight or train to ski in Sweden.

The cost for ski rentals and accommodations on the slope are cheaper in Åre and Sälen than in Austria, at least when planned in advance. The costs for ski school are lower (and often free for young kids) at these two Skistar places in Sweden than they are in St Anton in Austria. Food prices? Austria isn’t cheap either. Are the Austrian ski conditions better in December and January? Yes, but I do most of my northern hemisphere skiing in February and March and then it’s more of a wash with weather and lift hours.
You do get a break on the ferry, and the northern Austrian resorts can be made in 12 hrs... We leave on Friday morning and stay the night in a hotel close to the Austrian border so we can get the skis and everything on the Saturday. Ski passes in Åre are roughly the same as Kitzbühel. I don't know about lodging - I rent a ski-in, ski-out house for 3000 Euro/week, but it will hold 9 people so that seems quite reasonable. We drive home in one day, which is a bit tough on the kids, but they don't complain, thanks to iPads and phones...

My biggest problem with Sweden is the lack of sun. My idea of skiing is put on skis, ski down to the lift from the house, up to the top. Beer in the sun, followed by more beer in the sun. Kitzbühel has better skiing than Åre, MUCH better slope restaurants, and the beer is only 4 euros for a 50cl hefe...

Plus, I like the road trips. But you can always fly to MUC just as cheap as OST... :-)
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Old Aug 14, 19, 6:57 am
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Originally Posted by JR67 View Post
Plus, I like the road trips. But you can always fly to MUC just as cheap as OST... :-)
I usually fly to SZG for Zell am See and INN for St. Anton, Ishgl or Sölden.
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Old Aug 14, 19, 7:28 am
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
The price of just lift tickets, equipment rental and food and a couple of hours of group lessons for a 12-year-old skiing for 7 days at Steamboat, Aspen, Vail, Copper, Snowmass in Colorado will easily cost more than 10k SEK.
I grew up skiing in CO, but the prices now are just insane. CO, WY, UT, and BC have some of the best skiing in the world, but it is just too expensive. Austria is, to me, the best value for money ski destination in the world. Reasonably large systems (not close to les trois vallées, but good enough), reasonably priced lodging and food, and 450% gemütlichkeit. Add to that that I live in Skäne and love driving my Porsche on the autobahn...
No brainer...
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