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Originally Posted by MaecDavidMiller
(Post 17713010)
Remember, if you are a Russian citizen you are subject to Russian laws without the protection of your American citizenship (whether you entered on a US or a Russian passport).
2. Yes, there is no protection if you are a Russian citizen. But what is this protection? Interpreter from the consulate? If you brake the law, noone from the embassy can help you unless you are so valuable for the US government that you could be exchanged for Ms Chapman and Co |
Originally Posted by Krysenok
(Post 17715274)
2. Yes, there is no protection if you are a Russian citizen. But what is this protection? Interpreter for the consulate?
If you brake the law, noone from the embassy can help you unless you are so valuable for the US government that you could be exchanged for Ms Chapman and Co |
Well, Asia is a different thing and in Asia US governmnt support will be kept. It will not work only in Russia.
Do you have any examples in Russia - embassy influenced somehow that withiut them the situation would have been much worse |
Originally Posted by Krysenok
(Post 17716903)
Well, Asia is a different thing and in Asia US governmnt support will be kept. It will not work only in Russia.
Do you have any examples in Russia - embassy influenced somehow that withiut them the situation would have been much worse YMMV. |
Happy New Year, everyone! And thank you for the posts, MaecDavidMiller. Much appreciated.
Now, I KNOW without a shadow of a doubt that I still have Russian citizenship. It is complicated, however. We left January 17, 1992 & entered the United States on 3-month tourist visas. Don't ask how we got 'em, we did & we simply never went back. The RF, however, obviously thought that we did, since they called my old apartment when I became of conscription age. My mom was in St. Petersburg showing off my new-born baby sister. Man, do I wish I were born a woman all of a sudden. Bleh. Anyways, in the eyes of Russia, I am still a citizen, albeit one who hasn't lived there in 2 decades. [redacted] For me, the goal is to get a Russian passport. IF I can do it in America via the Russian Embassy, Consulates or organizations (private visa and passport companies) working with the Russian Embassy or Consulates, that would be the most ideal situation. If all hope is lost & I cannot do it in America, then I shall have to go the route of citizenship renunciation. It'll break my heart, but what can I do? Gotta do what I gotta do. My main concern is to have all the necessary paperwork. It's somewhere in the house, I know. (birth certificate, old Soviet passport with me listed as "child") Actually, I think it's in the plastic box directly behind me on the floor, but I'm not about to go rooting through it & mess up my mom's "organization". (I use that term very loosely) The second concern is that they will actually accept my paperwork & due diligence in taking the time to work on it "their way" and that they will give me what I want. What are the chances of that happening? If they are higher than they are lower, then there's no reason not to do it. I just called my Grandmother in St. Petersburg to wish her a Happy New Year & have a conversation. (Yes, I know I'm more than a week late, don't ask) She asked me if/when I could come & I could really tell that my Grandparents want to see me. And I want to see them. Emotional heartstring tugging aside, this is something very important to me & I want to do it successfully the first time around. I think the benefits here more than outweigh the risks. |
Originally Posted by RussianTexan
(Post 17771498)
Happy New Year, everyone! And thank you for the posts, MaecDavidMiller. Much appreciated.
Now, I KNOW without a shadow of a doubt that I still have Russian citizenship. It is complicated, however. We left January 17, 1992 & entered the United States on 3-month tourist visas. Don't ask how we got 'em, we did & we simply never went back. The RF, however, obviously thought that we did, since they called my old apartment when I became of conscription age. My mom was in St. Petersburg showing off my new-born baby sister. Man, do I wish I were born a woman all of a sudden. Bleh. Anyways, in the eyes of Russia, I am still a citizen, albeit one who hasn't lived there in 2 decades. I went back in 2008, my father managed to obtain a visa for me, no doubt with a bribe or some really, really smooth words. He's a smooth talker & I know it: he managed to get a Russian passport in Russia when they didn't let him leave on his American passport last year. I think that the bureaucratic headache shaved a month or two off his life, :( but he made it. For me, the goal is to get a Russian passport. IF I can do it in America via the Russian Embassy, Consulates or organizations (private visa and passport companies) working with the Russian Embassy or Consulates, that would be the most ideal situation. If all hope is lost & I cannot do it in America, then I shall have to go the route of citizenship renunciation. It'll break my heart, but what can I do? Gotta do what I gotta do. My main concern is to have all the necessary paperwork. It's somewhere in the house, I know. (birth certificate, old Soviet passport with me listed as "child") Actually, I think it's in the plastic box directly behind me on the floor, but I'm not about to go rooting through it & mess up my mom's "organization". (I use that term very loosely) The second concern is that they will actually accept my paperwork & due diligence in taking the time to work on it "their way" and that they will give me what I want. What are the chances of that happening? If they are higher than they are lower, then there's no reason not to do it. I just called my Grandmother in St. Petersburg to wish her a Happy New Year & have a conversation. (Yes, I know I'm more than a week late, don't ask) She asked me if/when I could come & I could really tell that my Grandparents want to see me. And I want to see them. Emotional heartstring tugging aside, this is something very important to me & I want to do it successfully the first time around. I think the benefits here more than outweigh the risks. |
Originally Posted by MaecDavidMiller
(Post 17771686)
Since 2008 the regulations (and enforcement) have tightened up considerably. You really do need to speak with a lawyer who specializes in such issues (I would not rely on advice from a visa agency for this). You also technically violated Russian law when entering on a US passport. You also may want to consider privacy issues when posting on a public forum.
Anyways, is it possible for someone to point me in the right direction regarding a lawyer who specializes in such issues? Possibly? Like I said, this is something that's important to me. Thanks in advance! ^ See, what really gets me is if they don't want me entering my birthplace on an American passport, why don't they just give me a Russian passport easily so I can visit? Hahahaha. Boils my blood here, you know? Bleh. |
If all hope is lost & I cannot do it in America, then I shall have to go the route of citizenship renunciation. |
Hey, RussianTexan, I am in the same exact boat as you are...
I left Russia in the Summer of 1999, and I have dual citizenship. My wife really would like to visit Russia, but I am afraid that if I go back, and use my Russian passport, they will throw me in jail, and then send me off to the Army. It really pisses me off on how stoooopid some of these laws are... Perhaps I will just have to renounce my citizenship after all if I ever want to go back before I'm 28. |
<redacted>
indeed... in general to be drafted you have to receive a draft letter, to receive draft letter you have to have a local address and be account for by military draft commission. If you received the letter and dodged the draft, after many formalities an order can be signed filing criminal charges. Nothing is going to happen during your one week stay, unless you spit in cops face - then you will need new kidneys and teeth. All a bargain further east in Russia you go. |
Originally Posted by RussianTexan
(Post 17776665)
See, what really gets me is if they don't want me entering my birthplace on an American passport, why don't they just give me a Russian passport easily so I can visit? Hahahaha. Boils my blood here, you know? Bleh.
Based on what I understand, you are a Russian citizen and the Russian government still counts you as one. In their view, you still officially live wherever you were registered (propisan) before you left the country. You can travel to Russia two ways: 1) GET A RETURN DOCUMENT, which allows you to travel to Russia. The consulate will probably insist on this option, but I would not recommend this at all. See what “fungirl” above says. You should only choose this option if you are ready to spend months in Russia. or 2) GET A RUSSIAN PASSPORT IN THE US. This requires you to contact the consulate… but I would do it through a lawyer, unless you have tons of patience. Good luck. The Russian bureaucracy can be bad but it is not worse than what I encountered in the U.S. |
Well, just wanted to say, today's the day! Or technically, tomorrow's the day, since that's when I shall arrive in my homeland. Funnily enough, it's the 1-year anniversary of the last post on this thread.
I just wanted to once again thank everyone who helped for their aid. It was really amazing. And for anyone thinking of going this route, I recommend going to the Consulate and dealing with them. They may take a seemingly extraordinary length of time (8 months in my case) but they are professional and very helpful. Thank you, thank you, thank you! Next step: making it through passport control.....TWICE! |
Originally Posted by MaecDavidMiller
(Post 17713010)
Although it has been a month and a half since the question came up, I want to add some points here. Your issues are not particularly complicated but because of the timing there is room for a great deal of misinterpretation.
Our travel company works with many people who are former Soviet citizens, and in general have no problem getting a visa for them provided that they have the proper documentation (about 2-3 years ago the requirements changed). In short, for FORMER Soviet citizens they need a canceled Soviet passport containing their exit visa ("visa to Israel") OR a certificate of naturalization from the US (even though the official requirement is for both documents). This is generally considered to be evidence of giving up Soviet citizenship for purposes of granting a Russian visa. This is from the Consulate of the Russian Federation in New York's website: Applicants who used to be citizens of the USSR or of the Russian Federation and then emigrated from the USSR or from Russia must submit one of the documents which confirms that they are no longer citizens of the Russian Federation (so called "Visa to Israel" or stamp in their passport saying that they left for "permanent residence abroad" before the 6th of February, 1992 or official document certifying that their Russian citizenship was renounced), otherwise the applications will not be accepted. A naturalization certificate is to be submitted also. You seem to be confused as to whether or not you are a Russian citizen (and left during probably the most confusing month in all of Russian/Soviet history). You do need to clarify that point, although I can guess that your paperwork (or that of your parents, since you probably traveled on your parents' passport) at least SHOULD have been properly stamped. I would NEVER advise someone to rely on others' experience with regards to being subject to military conscription; it might not be enforceable overseas, but it certainly is when you are on Russian territory. Remember, if you are a Russian citizen you are subject to Russian laws without the protection of your American citizenship (whether you entered on a US or a Russian passport). I would strongly advise that, should you consider in the slightest that you are a Russian citizen, you consult an attorney who has experience in cross-border issues (more on the Russian side). Such a consultation shouldn't take long and it will provide a road map in what you need to do. Once that is done you can decide if you want to renounce your Russian citizenship (and if it is necessary). Our visa people can review the paperwork but may turn it back should there be ambiguity or the need for further research. Also it is not too difficult to re-establish Russian citizenship-many of my colleagues have done that. Thanks |
Isn't the conscription army age ending at 26? Anyway, a friend of mine did so (Russian born, raised in France), and he showed up to the Army Office, explained he lives abroad, showed he had two passports, and his education papers of France, his working papers, etc, and they just stamped his paper saying he wasn't good enough for the Russian Army. That's all, it took less than 1h, though you better speak good Russian, or you go with a translator, or even you ask for the aid (paid, off course) of someone from the USEmbassy in Moscow. They should deal with this issues every day.
Do not renounce to the Russian citizenship. Is your right to have it, and you are entitled to have two or more. That's something funny, maybe, with regards to the Ukrainians. They are not allowed to have dual-citizenship but they can have multiple-citizenships, remember this guy, Ihor Kolomoyskyi, who had Ukrainian-Israeli-Cyprot citizenship, and he was allowed to be in politics (now the Governor of Dnepropetrovsk), while someone who had, say, Ukrainian and Russian, or Ukrainian and Latvia (Timoshenko, at some point), were not allowed unless she renounced to the Latvian one. |
Originally Posted by eielef
(Post 26214726)
That's something funny, maybe, with regards to the Ukrainians. They are not allowed to have dual-citizenship but they can have multiple-citizenships, remember this guy, Ihor Kolomoyskyi, who had Ukrainian-Israeli-Cyprot citizenship, and he was allowed to be in politics (now the Governor of Dnepropetrovsk), while someone who had, say, Ukrainian and Russian, or Ukrainian and Latvia (Timoshenko, at some point), were not allowed unless she renounced to the Latvian one.
Having dual citizenship and serving in the government is a completely different matter altogether. Also, as you point out there's a difference between dual and multiple citizenships. Dual means that both countries recognize that you are a citizen of both. Multiple means that to each country you're a citizen of that country only, and the rest is your problem. |
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