stevens397

Hi-

In another thread, I mentioned that we were taking a cruise next June from St Petersburg to Copenhagen. We are flying to Moscow for a few days of sightseeing and then planned to take a Saturday morning train to St Petersburg. Problem is Saturday is the major celebration night of White Nights and our friends can't get a room on points (we did awhile ago - pure luck) and rooms that are available are a fortune. The cruise line got them a room at a break for only $500 for Sat night.

I thought that maybe the answer was to stay in Moscow until Saturday night and board and sleep in a sleeper car. We'd arrive Sunday, board Monday but the boat does not depart until Tuesday night.

So the question is what are the trains like and are they comfortable for sleeping? Are they sleezy? Curious what the entire experience would be like and if this is an option that makes sense in light of the hotel situation. And if anyone is knowledgeable enough, any recommendation regarding a specific train, eg Grand Express vs Red Arrow?

Appreciate any insight. Thanks!

bcmatt

To be honest, the experience will depend on you/your friends to a certain extent. Some people HATE overnight trains, some people are FINE with it. If you have not done an overnight train trip before, you are not going to know what you think of them until you try them!! I'm not sure how you'd define sleazy - I could tell you fun-filled tales of drinking with soldiers on overnight trains and have X rated anecdotes people indulging in all sorts of things in their kupe or even the vestibule between carriages - but you'd really have to go out of your way to hunt it down! I've taken the Red Arrow once (it was nice enough), but usually I've just used your standard overnight trains between various cities in the former Soviet Union that everyday people use all the time and suffered no ill effect. Have a look at http://www.seat61.com/Russia-trains.htm or http://www.waytorussia.net/Transport...nal/Train.html for a better idea of train travel Russia. It might not agree with you, but you'll never know unless you try!

JohnnyColombia

Do it!

I went St Petersburg to Moscow to St Petersburg on the overnight train and it was absolutely bewitching. It's about 400 miles between the 2 cities and takes about 8 hours so bank on it being a slow comfortable ride.

Two of us had an individual cabin, they give you flat pack flip flops and a bit of breakfast, cute little beds. In the morning you have to put your flip flops on and walk to the end of the carriage to get the hot water for your tea.

I don't know if they have updated the trains since I last went (I don't see why they would) but it is a James Bond-esque journey through time to a place with wooden panelled rail travel with cute cabins.

It is not the Orient Express but it is an absolutely unmissable experience

dcmike

I would definitely shell out for the "LUKS" the first class, two-person compartment. Actually, if there are four of you traveling, you can book an entire Kupe (Compartment) and be fine with two upper births and two lower births.

I have done it 100 times. I now only do it against my will. Not because of sleaze, not because of drinking, I just cannot sleep on the darn things. As part of traffic management (since there are so many trains going back and forth overnight between Moscow and St. Pete) you end up getting shunted off 3-4 times to side tracks to wait 20-30 minutes for other trains go by. Every time this happens, I wake up and can't fall asleep until the train starts moving again.

I much prefer the Sapsan, the modern, high speed train that goes during the day and takes about 4 hours. Personally, I would stay in the hotel in Moscow, get up at 6am and catch the first Sapsan to St. Pete. You'll sleep better and have a more enjoyable day seeing the sights.

Xyzzy

I've done the train a couple of times and wuld definitely suggest the overnight Red Arrow as the best way to experience train travel on this route. From the Soviet-era music played as the train departs to the samovars with hot water at the end of each car, it's quite a retro experience. ^^

brasov02

The overnight train sound like a mesmerizing experience for us Russian neophytes. But I would be torn between enjoying the mysterious magic of traveling through the Russian countryside at night on a train but on the other hand regretting not being able to see the landscapes passing by. I definitely want to experience the overnight train but I think it will have to wait until after I've done the same trip in the daylight so I won't have to wonder what I'm missing.

meFIRST

Personally, I prefer the Saspan.
Or the LED-SVO shuttle.

But the overnight trains are incredible value.

The Soviet era music might be there, but the Samovar's at the end of the car? This is disappearing, much like the sicle and the hammer.

homelyboy

Frankly speaking, there's not much to miss in between. Fields, forests, fences, fields, forests, fences, fields, forests, fences, station with cargo wagons, a few houses, and then again fields, forests, fences. There are no great views like in the Swiss Alps.

homelyboy

Hmm... Don't know what you're speaking about. What do you mean by "Soviet era music"?

And "Samovar" which is "disappearing"? Do you mean the boiler? They're still in place, not any chance for them to disappear in foreseeable future.

TheVisaMachine

Red Arrow is still considered the best train, which I would go for. Their Luks (2 birth compartments) have breakfast included, which is a nice touch.

As for the night vs day travel... It really depends on how much time you have. If you are limited by time, it's great to spend a night on the train and enjoy St. Petersburg for an extra day (it's well worth it!). If you have plenty of time, you can choose the day express train, which only takes 4.5 hours.

But either way, you would want to book your tickets as early as possible. The earliest you can book train tickets in Russia is 45 days in advance. If you have any Russian speaking friends, you can actually do it yourself on the official railways website http://rzd.ru/

Xyzzy

Wikipedia says this:

Xyzzy

Wikipedia says this:

MileageAddict

I'm planning to take the Red Arrow in May 2012. Any opinions on first class (2 berths) vs. 2nd class (4 berths) as far as differences? Better amenities? Does only first class receive breakfast? Anything else?

dcmike

If you're traveling with one other person, the first class cabin is great. The four person kupe you're casting your dice who you're going to end up with. I've had great companions, especially if you're up for talking and drinking (it's not always the case, but it does happen), I've also had very calm, quiet companions. If you want to be sure of a quiet night and you're traveling with one other person, definitely go for the first class cabin.

homelyboy

Ummm, don't know if it is "Soviet era music"... Sounds like just plain music for me, nothing specifically Soviet. :-)