SU1492 returns to SVO and catches fire 05/05/19
May 5, 2019, 9:54 pm
#33
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Moscow
Programs: Marriott Titanium, IHG Diamond AMB
Posts: 1,756
One can probably argue that the fire brigade should've been moved closer to the runaway before landing even while there had been no fire on board pre-touchdown.
"Violation of transport safety rules leading to two or more fatalities" is a felony here and gets you 5 to 8 years in prison (263.1(4)). Not sure that the idiots with the luggage will be prosecuted, though.
May 5, 2019, 10:48 pm
#34
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: HKG • Ex SFO, NYC
Programs: UA 1K, AA EXP; Marriott Amb; Hyatt Globalist; Shangri-la Diamond; IHG SpireAmb; Hilton D; Accor G
Posts: 3,319
I can't get over the idiots with their hand luggage. Truly irresponsible and selfish.
As for the flight deck crew, considering the loss of controls that must have occurred with the fire, this is going to be an interesting investigation. The conditions subsequent to the bounce and crash must have been brutal as the flight deck reportedly used emergency ropes to exit.
As for the flight deck crew, considering the loss of controls that must have occurred with the fire, this is going to be an interesting investigation. The conditions subsequent to the bounce and crash must have been brutal as the flight deck reportedly used emergency ropes to exit.
May 6, 2019, 2:25 am
#35
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In the air
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Bonvoy LT Plat, Hilton Gold, GHA Tit, BA Gold, Turkish Elite
Posts: 8,717
May 6, 2019, 3:19 am
#36
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: EMA (how boring) but BHX is more convenient.
Posts: 2,366
I don't want to comment too soon, nor to say anything disrespectful to the dead, their loved ones, and others that have suffered. However, I believe that like other fatal accidents in the past, it is going to be very important to learn from this accident, to make flying safer in the future.
In the meantime, I wish to extend my greatest sympathy to those who have suffered loss through this disaster.
In the meantime, I wish to extend my greatest sympathy to those who have suffered loss through this disaster.
May 6, 2019, 5:44 am
#37
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: DCA
Posts: 7,769
One explanation could be that they did not want to impede use of the functional exits or endanger fleeing pax. See the Asiana event at SFO where a pax was struck and killed by a firefighting vehicle.
There is quite a bit of research on this topic and the simple answer is that untrained civilians DO NOT act rationally in these situations. Here is one article on the matter: https://www.aerosociety.com/news/lives-before-luggage/
A study published by J Leach in 2004 (Why people 'freeze' in an emergency: temporal and cognitive constraints on survival responses) which analysed 11 marine and aviation accidents suggests that passenger behavioural responses can be separated into one of three categories: those who keep calm and can react rationally (10-15%), those who are ‘stunned and bewildered’ (75%) and people who display ‘counterproductive behaviour’.
Ed Galea at Greenwich University in London is the world expert in this and has been recommending central locking of overhead bins in emergencies for 20+ years...this is a logical engineered solution to circumvent human behavior which has to date proven uncontrollable.
May 6, 2019, 6:16 am
#39
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: DCA
Posts: 7,769
May 6, 2019, 6:25 am
#40
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bay Area
Programs: DL SM, UA MP.
Posts: 12,729
If you’re stuck in the back, are you going to politely wait as people in front reach up for their stuff, when they’re clearly instructing people to leave without that stuff, get off the plane ASAP?
They’re endangering your life and lives of those behind you.
You should be screaming at them to get off the plane right away and if they reach up shove them forward.
Or shove them back into the seats to clear the aisle between the people in the back and the exit rows.
Or are you going to politely and patiently wait while these idiots endanger you and other people’s lives with their stupidity?
They’re endangering your life and lives of those behind you.
You should be screaming at them to get off the plane right away and if they reach up shove them forward.
Or shove them back into the seats to clear the aisle between the people in the back and the exit rows.
Or are you going to politely and patiently wait while these idiots endanger you and other people’s lives with their stupidity?
Last edited by l etoile; May 6, 2019 at 12:01 pm Reason: language
May 6, 2019, 6:27 am
#41
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: DCA
Posts: 7,769
If you’re stuck in the back, are you going to politely wait as people in front reach up for their stuff, when they’re clearly instructing people to leave without that stuff, get off the plane ASAP?
They’re endangering your life and lives of those behind you.
You should be screaming at them to get off the plane right away and if they reach up shove them forward.
Or shove them back into the seats to clear the aisle between the people in the back and the exit rows.
Or are you going to politely and patiently wait while these idiots endanger you and other people’s lives with their stupidity?
They’re endangering your life and lives of those behind you.
You should be screaming at them to get off the plane right away and if they reach up shove them forward.
Or shove them back into the seats to clear the aisle between the people in the back and the exit rows.
Or are you going to politely and patiently wait while these idiots endanger you and other people’s lives with their stupidity?
Last edited by l etoile; May 6, 2019 at 12:01 pm Reason: language in quote
May 6, 2019, 6:48 am
#43
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: DCA
Posts: 7,769
No, I'm referencing the collective body of literature on crowd disasters and fire evacuations, where situations are almost always worsened by victims pushing from behind, creating a chain reaction and pile-up of falling victims. No one should be blaming victims, because as I cited above, untrained individuals will invariably react irrationally to some extent. I was referring to your suggestion, which is that more pushing and loud yelling (including cursing) would help the situation. In actuality this would increase the level of chaos, panic, and irrationality. This is why those who are trained to act in these situations, e.g. first responders and flight attendants, are trained to give calm, yet loud and firm instructions.
May 6, 2019, 7:37 am
#44
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: UK
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 532
The certification benchmark is all passengers out of half the exits in 90 seconds. Here, just under half the passengers got out of half the exits. The fact that Aeroflot are highlighting this as a 'good' thing is bizarre.
May 6, 2019, 7:55 am
#45
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC: UA 1K, DL Platinum, AAirpass, Avis PC
Posts: 4,599
Here's another account from a passenger who said some were afraid to walk because of the smoke - via Google translate.
https://www.interfax.ru/russia/660311
“There were two very loud strikes and two flashes, but the engine did not catch fire. I don’t know if it worked further or didn’t work, but it didn’t burn, that’s absolutely certain,” Yevmenkov noted.
He said that there was no panic and crush in the cabin, and expressed gratitude to the flight attendants, "who essentially saved us."
"The fact that people were standing in the aisles, it really was. For example, I was not the first to go out and when I got up from my seat, it was impossible to go forward. There was a woman with a child in front of me, but they didn’t even walk, apparently they were afraid to breathe carbon monoxide gas, and at this very moment, running to the exit would mean running through people. Therefore, for some time I, for example, just stood in the aisle ... At that moment, those who wanted to take things from the shelves . there were documents there, it was I who grabbed them and, when the movement had already begun, went ahead, "said Yevmenkov.
https://www.interfax.ru/russia/660311
“There were two very loud strikes and two flashes, but the engine did not catch fire. I don’t know if it worked further or didn’t work, but it didn’t burn, that’s absolutely certain,” Yevmenkov noted.
He said that there was no panic and crush in the cabin, and expressed gratitude to the flight attendants, "who essentially saved us."
"The fact that people were standing in the aisles, it really was. For example, I was not the first to go out and when I got up from my seat, it was impossible to go forward. There was a woman with a child in front of me, but they didn’t even walk, apparently they were afraid to breathe carbon monoxide gas, and at this very moment, running to the exit would mean running through people. Therefore, for some time I, for example, just stood in the aisle ... At that moment, those who wanted to take things from the shelves . there were documents there, it was I who grabbed them and, when the movement had already begun, went ahead, "said Yevmenkov.