Jakebeth

Insert screechy cat-fight sound.

badatz

Not to beat the point to death but as mentioned in numerous posts above, we are talking about Kosher deli's and by a quick look at their website it is hard (sic) to call Cantor's a Kosher deli

Let's try to keep the suggestions relevant to the topic

Pureboy

Nah, more of a metalhead/otaku. Not your average frummie, ifyouknowwhatImean.

stockmanjr

Smulka Bernstiens was awesome..My parents were sad when it closed
-howie

Thumper

In fairness to the LA crew, the MAJOR thing they have over New York is the Nathan's in LA is Glatt.

What a country!

mlshanks

Cantor's is/was kosher by the simple expediancy of having two seperate kitchens and sets of dishware, one for fleishik and one for milchik... Unless it's changed in the last decade or so. I was raised going to the place w/ my kosher keeping zeyde. Back in the day, if I really was being a really obnoxious teen, I'd order "a ham and cheese on a bagel" just to see the reactions. I'd score double points if I could get stares from the adjacent tables, before I changed the order to lox and tomato with a shmeer.

If you're going to insist on a deli that makes a big mishgos about being KOSHER , try Pico Kosher Deli or Nathan’s.

badatz

I am not insisting on anything but common sense.
Look at their website. The word Kosher or Kosher style never appears. It is open 24/7. And to top it off the menu includes "Philly Cheese Steak"
Meat Balls and Mozerrela ,and Turkey strips in cream sauce.
Just having a corned beef sandwich on the menu does not classify it as a Kosher Deli
It might hava changed over the years since your Zeyde took you there
Kosher mean Kosher and let's keep it that way

Pureboy

Word. On my last trip to L.A. I had some Nathan's ribs. mmm mmm good! Its also open later than any other Pico kosher establishment.

Also, Rib Tickler (alav hashalom) was fantastic, back in the day. I still remember the air vents painted green to look like cacti.

CO FF

IMHO:

-- the best kosher deli in NYC now is 2nd Avenue.

-- if you restrict yourself to those places that are not open on shabbat, pastrami king (in queens) is very good. A hidden gem is a place called Mazur's (in Little Neck, right near Great Neck, Long Island) - the deli/restaurant adjacent to the butcher shop/grocery.

-- in Los Angeles, Pico Kosher Deli is as good as it gets, but it wouldn't make the top 10 in NY.

-- trivia question: which disgraced Washington politico was the financial backer for Stacks?

-- Shmulke Bernstein's was the most overrated place out there. The deli was ok, not great; the Chinese was dreck.

My grandfather, who ran a kosher delicatessen in Brooklyn as far back as the 20s, always said that he would never eat at Bernsteins because he was offended by what he saw in the kitchen when we worked there during the depression (he lost his own place for a few years). When I pressed him, he said that the mashgiach (kosher supervisor) would nosh without washing his hands before touching the food...

-- trivia answer: Jack Abramoff.

craz

Sorry but I have to disagree with you, I Never had a better sandwich then Smulkas. thats at a place that is Closed on Shabbat. Also I dont know of another Kosher Deli that Smoked and Pickled their own meats. I sure do miss 'em!!

As for being clean well even the best of the 5*s gets hit with Violations and big ones at that. Ive worked in kitchens in many a capacity and yrs ago no one washed as they do today.

whats the problem with the Mashgiach, hes Not a Religious Health Inspector, hes there to make sure that everything food-wise is Kosher. Eating without washing ones hands has Nothing to do with being Kosher.

And just cause a place is spotless up front its whats going on in the kitchen that counts.

As for SBs Chinese thats all there was for a very long time if one was Kosher. Moshe Peking opened and set a very high standard, but you cant compare Kosher Chinese to Non-Kosher. So it was Dreck compared to what?

Jakebeth

So, my question is - can one obtain a hechsher* in NY or LA if open on Shabbat?

I can unfortunately confirm that the presence of a mashgiach and cleanliness can in fact be mutually exclusive. I witnessed this when I worked for three months in the bakery at Mishmar Hasharon**, back before it burned down.

* hechsher = Kosher certification
** Mishmar Hasharon = a Kibbutz near Netanya; triva - Ehud Barak was raised there

craz

I would venture to say No. Even if the so called Mashgiach lived in the same neighborhood. As I doubt that they enter into the business on Shabbos for numerous reasons, thusly even though a Mashgiach isnt a Tamidi one (Present all the time while the business is open and operating) it must be a case where the Mashgiach can/will come at any day and time, which once the owners know will not be the case on Shabbos it renders a Mashgiach's job of making sure all is Kosher to of no importance since the owners will know they can do whatever they want on Shabbos cause teh Mashgiach will NOT be coming in to check-up no matter what.

I believe that most if not all Heckshars are given by Orthodox Rabbis. As many Conservative and Reform dont hold by having to be Kosher at all, to them theres no need for a Heckshar to say somethings Kosher, when they eat anything.

Jakebeth

I'm not trying to be combative when I respond craz (as I personally don't care), but I can promise you that there are many conservative and reform folks who will take issue with your assertion, though I know that you said "many". I know people from both movements who are pretty observant.

That said, I don't know what the general practice is in New York, but in other cities with which I'm familiar, there's usually one major organization that has the broadest recognition from the community, and which handles the assignments of a mashgiach. In Chicago it's the so-called "CRC", or Chicago Rabbinical Council. As you note, though, it is an Orthodox organization.

craz

I didnt take it that you were combative in any way/shape/ or form.

I dont remeber the last time I met a reform Jew who was 100% kosher nor who cared to be. That would include eating Hebrew National and like products. Conservative is abit different but even with them its harder to find a person who is 100% kosher all the time both In & out of their Home.

By the way What is an Observant Reform Jew? To be one does that mean you eat on Yom Kippur and Traif at that, you drive on the Shabbath, you marry a Non-Jew or even someone of the same Gender? Thats a Paradox if I ever heard one. Ive heard of Conservadox which is someone who doesnt feel comfortable here or there and doesnt want to be Reform but at the same time wants it up to them to decide what and what does not have to be adhered to.

Make no mistake about it , if their Mother was Jewish so are they No Matter what they believe or dont believe. If their Mother wasnt Jewish but their Father is/was then they can stand on their heads and whistle Dixie while playing a Sax they are not Jewish unless they under went a Proper Conversion.

Back on point, if theres a place that is Kosher but serves a Cheeseburger where the Meat is Glatt and the Cheese is Halav Yisroel , would you consider the place as a Kosher Deli? I wouldnt, Im sure they are people out there who would say as long as the food itself is Kosher thats all that counts.

The Main Hecshars in the US are the 'OU', 'OK', 'KOF K', & 'STAR K' . One of the 4 is usually is found on the products that can be had on a National Basis. All 4 are also ALL under Orthodox Certification . Like the CRC each city has its own Vaad also to handle the Local scene, such as Supermaket Bakeries and Restaurants. Rare to find a Local Hec on a National Brand, even if the plant is in that city as usually there are Plants throughout the US and the Company will go with 1 of the Big 4 I mentioned above, to approve of all its plants.


* a couple of years ago in Israel a Conservative Group started giving a Hecshar to places that meet its Kosher Policy even though the Place is open on Shabbos, something that the Israeli Rabbinate wont do.

when it comes to Hecshars Isreal to me is like the Wild West. Every Chaim, Yossel & Berel are doing it. (Tom,Dick & Harry)With the problem being who are they and can they be trusted?

badatz

In Israel you cannot get a recognized Hechscher if the place of business is open on Shabbat. The only exception to this is hotels which have an agreement with the local Rabbanut to give a Hechscher for the dining room often with restrictions as to what can and cannot be done in the lobby lounge.
Of couse if the hotel wants a Mehadrin (extra strict) Hechscher, no business is allowed anywhere.
Because of the above and for other reasons the Rabbunut (local municipal Rabbinical Council) Hechscher is not acceptable to many Ultra Orthodox Jews and therefore many private supervisory organizations (BADATZ) have sprung up to give a higher level of supervision
They are well known here and abroad by the circles which need and use them
So in the end anyone can find want they want with the bottom line being closed on Shabbat

Any by the way Shmulke Bernstein OB"M had the best Spare Ribs anywhere.

Chanukah Sameach to all