LLM

We recently visited these on a side trip while in Israel. They are in the West Bank and getting there required some juggling as Israel has made direct access difficult. We were, however, perfectly safe and warmly welcomed in perfect English. Here are some pix. I haven't posted a trip report as I'm not sure of the general interest but there is quite a story to go with both cities and how we got there, including tracking down via internet some very old friends of the family (circa 1978). They were two of the best days of our lives and we are eager to go back and see more of the Holy Land.

http://mbrownlee.photosite.com/

Casimir

I went to Bethlehem last year and also found the welcome in Bethlehem to be warm. We hired a guide for the day who showed us around and took us to the Herodion (did I get that right?) -- the site of one of the Herods' castles/fortifications. I would not trade that day in Bethlehem for anything.

I am interested in the logistics you employed. We stayed in Tel Aviv for various reasons, but drove to Jerusalem and parked our rental car on the street not far from the road into Bethlehem. We flagged a taxi within minutes and the (Jewish) taxi driver took us through the border crossing after a brief conversation with the border guard and then straight to the Church of the Nativity. Although the Palestinian taxi drivers we passed along the way jeered at the Israeli taxi, we felt perfectly safe. We retraced our steps on the way back, getting off at the border and walking back to our car on the Israeli side.

Were we foolish, or is there a better way to go?

Also, how did the OP or anyone else who knows get to Jericho? Is it safe to get there? One hears different reports. Thanks, Casimir.

LLM

FT'er Alysia had found someone on the internet to make the arrangements, a driver to pick us up in Tel Aviv and a guide in Bethlehem. Alas, the driver went to the wrong hotel but a Sheraton taxi driver agreed to take us to the checkpoint and the guide sent his partner to pick us up on the other side. There was a 30 minute wait at the checkpoint and I wonder if we could have just walked through since they had no interest in us. The IDF just checked the driver's ID and he turned around. In fact, while we were in line, he got out of the taxi and went over to chat with other Jewish taxi drivers. On the way out, we just walked through without any notice from the IDF to meet the driver who had come back for us. I have read that they have a search and passport check operation that begun just after we left and make everyone get off tour buses for lengthy checks, with delays up to two hours.

Re Jericho, our Bethlehem guide George had contacted our father-in-law's friends in Abu Dis/Bethany via internet. They met us in the Church of the Nativity and invited us to their home for dinner the following day when we were already scheduled for a Jerusalem tour. They are no longer permitted into Jerusalem so they sent a driver with a permit to fetch us from the Zion Gate. They live on the same street as Abbas, who lives in an ordinary house. We had a marvelous meal and they told us about their lives behind the security wall. After dinner they took us on a tour of it which separates them from the Mount of Olives. We had come to Jerusalem on the tour bus and to get back, their driver took us to the shuttle stop there so we could get back to Tel Aviv.

At this point we realized it was a mistake to be based on Tel Aviv. We took the shuttle back to Jerusalem, the driver fetched us again to Bethany and our friend's cousin Eddie who works for his taxi business drove us to Jericho, where we met the former mayor (another cousin) and his sister and her family. Her nephew went along to show us the sights. The gift shop and restaurant at the ruins are owned by yet another cousin and there were lots of young people home from university in the US working there. There were six tour buses that day; our guide said there used to be 50 a day. There is a checkpoint into and out of the city. The PA person just waved. The IDF were always checking seatbelts there and at the other checkpoints before we got to Jericho. They had no interest in us, just Eddie. He couldn't take us down to the Dead Sea because Pal's are not permitted there before 6 pm but we could see it from Jericho. We were perfectly safe. I did not see any weapons except held by IDF.

If you want to visit, Eddie loves to show tourists around and I have his cell number. I don't know what he officially charges; we just gave him and the other driver some dollars, which they prefer to NIS. They can send the other driver with a Jerusalem permit to fetch you there, annoying to double up, I know, but the checkpoint into Bethany goes smoothly. We are planning to go back and see Hebron and more, assuming the checkpoints are open.

Alysia

Basically, I did a google search for a Bethlehem guide & was taken to a travel site where an Israeli guide posted that she could arrange a tour with a guide she knew in Bethlehem. We lucked out as this guy was an excellent guide.

Today being Christmas Eve, I've watched the news reports from Bethlehem and am so glad that I was able to go there last month. I am also thankful that LLM and her family wanted to go there with me. The day spent in Bethlehem was the best day of the trip to Israel. I have a friend who goes to Israel often & she is the one who told me to be sure to visit Bethlehem. In a few hours, I will be going to this friend's annual Christmas Eve party where she will be lighting her candles from Bethlehem.

Dovster

While I am very happy that both LLM and Alysia had good experiences in Bethlehem, I can not, in good conscience, recommend that anyone -- especially an American -- visit it.

Keep in mind that Bethlehem is still an occupied area (although under direct Palestinian Authority jurisdiction) and many in the city blame Americans almost as much as they blame Israelis.

Arabs have a very strong tradition of hospitality and I am not at all surprised by LLM's reception there but it is enough to have one person out of one thousand decide to take out his anger in violence to turn a vacation into a tragedy.

Israel, in general, is actually very safe and this includes its Arab cities, such as Nazareth. Until peace becomes a reality instead of a goal, my advice is to stay out of the occupied areas.

LLM

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l etoile

I would bet there is a lot of general interest. The details that you've provided with each post are very interesting, and I enjoyed your photos. I hope you do decide to do a full trip report.

LLM

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LLM

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craz

deleted since the Post it was referring no longer exists , my response need not either.

Casimir

I think we should be careful not to start an OMNI style discussion here. I thank all for the wonderful information, and I especially thank Dovster for his cautionary note. I for one take his caution very seriously. I think at a minimum, one should make a show of hiring a Palestinian guide when in the west bank. The Palestinians we met were very very hospitable, and they avoided all but the most innocuous references to politics and to Israel. As a pro-pro-Israel Christian on what was essentially a religious pilgrimage, I really appreciated that.

We noticed that due to the depressed economic conditions, there was a lot of souvenir hustling (I don't mean that pejoratively) in Bethlehem, whereas I saw none of that in Tel Aviv or even much in Jerusalem.

Again, thanks all.

dnotes

great thread, care to share more on the religious experience aspect? thanks and merry christmas to you all.

LLM

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LLM

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Dovster

There is no secret that I was the TalkBoard member who pushed the hardest for this forum. There is also no secret that the biggest obstacle I had to overcome was the fear that it would turn into another Omni.

I do not want to have it taken away from us, but that is exactly what will happen unless we stay within its restrictions.

This is not a forum to debate theology nor is it the place to discuss politics --even if those politics concern Israel.

Frankly, it does not matter (for this forum) if LLM is in favor of the fence separating Israel from Palestine or that separating the U.S. from Mexico. All of that can be discussed, if you wish, on Omni.

Please keep this forum restricted to Religious Travel.